Author Topic: Structures?  (Read 20100 times)

Pilgrims67

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Re: Structures?
« Reply #15 on: December 31, 2009, 10:13:37 PM »
I am currently project managing a scheme that reuses an existing steel structure, which we are adding to increase the roof height. this is a £22 million scheme, I am also the project manager on 4 other schemes totalling £40 million, I think it's probably safe to say I know what I am talking about.
It isn't my intention to throw cold water on your ideas, everything is up for debate, but I have said before, it's the infrastructure, and fit out that costs the money, the structure is relatively less cost, there are other ways to save money, rather than using structures exposed to the elements for 30 years.
An effective Tendering process, along with good project management and tight brief control, will deliver value.

The challenge will be generating money, a bigger challenge than saving it. Check today's press on Southend united.
 
Always happy to discuss over a batemans!!

Always happy to discuss over a batemans!!
« Last Edit: December 31, 2009, 10:18:16 PM by Pilgrims67 »

Ed Kandi

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Re: Structures?
« Reply #16 on: January 01, 2010, 10:38:30 PM »
I am currently project managing a scheme that reuses an existing steel structure, which we are adding to increase the roof height.
Are you adding an extra storey to the existing steel structure, or putting the steelwork on top of the newly built part?
it's the infrastructure, and fit out that costs the money, the structure is relatively less cost, there are other ways to save money, rather than using structures exposed to the elements for 30 years.

The infrastructure consisting of drainage, a road, parking areas, services etc ... cost dependent on distance from existing road drainage etc and would have to be paid whatever structure is used.

Fit out could initially be fairly basic, and could be added to in time...also not dependent on the structure
An effective Tendering process, along with good project management and tight brief control, will deliver value.
Yes, but that would apply to any new build, using any structure.



The challenge will be generating money, a bigger challenge than saving it. Check today's press on Southend united.
 
Always happy to discuss over a batemans!!


The finance has to be in place, any ideas how much it would be?   Ball park figures of course  :dan
And its all got to happen in the next decade, or sooner  :-\

Pilgrims67

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Re: Structures?
« Reply #17 on: January 02, 2010, 11:29:19 AM »
Many factors affect costs. Morecambe are just starting to build a new stadium, having sold christie park, and now it has planning for a supermarket.

Ultimately our biggest issue is lack of assets. Southend, morecambe, tottenham, Bristol city, all in various stages of redevelopment or relocation, and all are linked to a supermarket deal, there are other clubs working withsupermarkets to relocate, in a way it's scary that it's the march of supermarkets funding development. Look at Chesterfield, Coventry, everton (failed)

we have nothing to trade with, apart from some old stands, therefore it will have to be self financing, either done in conjunction with another development, ie retail, or housing. I think a standalone stadium would be a financial challenge.
I would add Dave Newton know more about this than any of us!!

Anyway costs, perhaps on the cheap at £7 million, there has to be sufficent facilities to keep revenue flowing all week every week,

In terms of structure, we are adding a floor. So to install a mezz we have to raise the existing building, it's a real challenge in terms of structural design, and minimising the amount if support columns. I am extending an existing supermarket into an adjoining former homebase, which increases  the sales area from 37k sq ft to 100k sq ft. Really exciting stuff, it's the biggest extension we have ever done.

Ed Kandi

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Re: Structures?
« Reply #18 on: January 02, 2010, 09:19:42 PM »
we have nothing to trade with, apart from some old stands, therefore it will have to be self financing, either done in conjunction with another development, ie retail, or housing. I think a standalone stadium would be a financial challenge.
I would add Dave Newton know more about this than any of us!!

Anyway costs, perhaps on the cheap at £7 million, there has to be sufficent facilities to keep revenue flowing all week every week,
 


I think we are looking at a stand-alone stadium...the housing option is a non-starter at the moment, and the retail option looks unlikely as if Sainsburys, for example, were looking at moving into the area on the outskirts of town, whats to stop them just buying their own plot of land and building on it as Tescos did?
A development of smaller retail units, built to let, might work for the sustainability part, but where would the initial outlay of cash come from...if we're talking £7m for a new ground you're probably going to double that to include the retail.

In terms of structure, we are adding a floor. So to install a mezz we have to raise the existing building, it's a real challenge in terms of structural design, and minimising the amount if support columns. I am extending an existing supermarket into an adjoining former homebase, which increases  the sales area from 37k sq ft to 100k sq ft. Really exciting stuff, it's the biggest extension we have ever done.


So you have to jack up the existing building in one piece? Sounds like an interesting  project, although the engineering challenges are different to those you would be up against if you had to project manage the moving of several spectator stands from one part of town to another!
It would be interesting to find out what the specified designed service life-span was for the Townend, the Spayne, and the Main stand. Its generally 100 years for steel structures exposed to the elements, and 50 for concrete structures...maybe somebody out there knows who did the original calcs  ???

The enviromental audit would look good if you managed to move the York St stands to a new ground  8)
Even the insitu concrete could be put through a crusher and used under the roads/car-parks  :o

les

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Re: Structures?
« Reply #19 on: January 08, 2010, 03:27:04 PM »
I see the posts quoting between £7 m and £10 m for a new stadium, with talk about moving the stands and other buildings to a new site. So how much do they want for the york street site. If no new stands were necessary would that not be a cheaper option.

Pilgrims67

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Re: Structures?
« Reply #20 on: January 08, 2010, 04:01:53 PM »
Possibly much cheaper. The issue is where do we get £X million from?

For me the solution is.

1.Buy the ground
2.work up an out of town stadium, with a mixed use development
3.sell existing ground with permission for housing or supermarket/retail
4. Sell the ground at a premium with planning consent and vacant possession

you recoup the purchase price, and hopefully fund the new stadium through this sale, and income from mixed use.

There would be debt, but by having a 7 day a week facility thatcould be covered

simples!

Only downside is all the upfront outlay, and quite a but of risk on returns

mind you I was told today steel is running at £450 a tonne, very cheap, now is the time to buy some new stands!!

Dave.

gocompare

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Re: Structures?
« Reply #21 on: January 08, 2010, 09:52:17 PM »
Interesting times ahead!

qwerty

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Re: Structures?
« Reply #22 on: January 09, 2010, 11:15:44 AM »
The Chestnuts will not be buying the existing ground. The landlords want a retail price and the Chestnuts pay a trade price, also the communication between the two partys is on par with Obama & Osama.

I think it's fairly safe to say the land has been secured for a new ground/sports complex.

The business plan was set when the Chestnuts took over and it's now being put into place. All we have to do is support the team through good and bad, use the Pilgrim Lounge and support club events then we will get our new ground.

Bunyan

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Re: Structures?
« Reply #23 on: January 09, 2010, 12:26:25 PM »
Glad to see somebody in Boston is up and awake,  qwerty. 11.15 for the first post of the day I thought every body had cancelled this snow laden day and gone back to bed!!!

Just a thought on the new ground. When the Chestnuts bought out Lavaflow would they have inherited their plans for a new stadium. Can't remember how advanced the architects plans were or whether they were just artists impressions.

Perhaps a hotel and conference rooms alongside the ground are the best commercial bet as this area is desperately short of both facilities.

green hats mate

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Re: Structures?
« Reply #24 on: January 09, 2010, 02:01:19 PM »
The Lavaflow plans were rejected at a council planning meeting on 04/12 2006. at the Boston Conference Centre,  If they were passed on to Chestnuts it would be fairly safe to say they received the treatment they deserved ( i e the shredder )

Sussex Pilgrim

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Re: Structures?
« Reply #25 on: January 09, 2010, 02:39:00 PM »
The Lavaflow plans were rejected at a council planning meeting on 04/12 2006. at the Boston Conference Centre,  If they were passed on to Chestnuts it would be fairly safe to say they received the treatment they deserved ( i e the shredder )

Plans for the stadium are not the same as a business case.  In Lavalows instance you'd be right to shred that as I believe the business case was why they failed..... their numbers didn't add up and they relied purely on funding from the sale of Towns land.  Then again Evans never could do his maths so its hardly surprising the business case was pap.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2010, 09:57:05 PM by Sussex Pilgrim »

Ed Kandi

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Re: Structures?
« Reply #26 on: January 09, 2010, 09:31:05 PM »
I think it's fairly safe to say the land has been secured for a new ground/sports complex.

The business plan was set when the Chestnuts took over and it's now being put into place. All we have to do is support the team through good and bad, use the Pilgrim Lounge and support club events then we will get our new ground.

Sounds idylic qwerty.
Assuming the land has been allocated for BUFC to use at the usual peppercorn rent, then all we need is the construction costs of the new ground...all covered by the business plan  :dan
Would the Trust know details of the plan  ???


qwerty

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Re: Structures?
« Reply #27 on: January 10, 2010, 09:32:38 AM »
I think it's fairly safe to say the land has been secured for a new ground/sports complex.

The business plan was set when the Chestnuts took over and it's now being put into place. All we have to do is support the team through good and bad, use the Pilgrim Lounge and support club events then we will get our new ground.

Would the Trust know details of the plan  ???


Yes. The business model was released at a fans forum and was also published on the BUFC website.

Does sound a little idylic I know, but all the best plans are simple  ;)

Pilgrims67

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Re: Structures?
« Reply #28 on: January 10, 2010, 09:54:51 AM »
Simple plans never equal simple execution!

How many pints of bateman do we need to sell to build a new stadium.

The club will be heavily debt ridden in any new stadium development.

Ed Kandi

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Re: Structures?
« Reply #29 on: January 10, 2010, 09:57:48 AM »


Yes. The business model was released at a fans forum and was also published on the BUFC website.



Any chance of a link to this publication?  My limited computer skills have revealed nothing except the stuff regarding the day to day running costs of the club  ???