National League considering changes to play-offs

[leicester pilgrim]

According to today's Non-League Paper, the National League are considering some changes to the play-offs. Proposals are as follows:

(I) Moving next season's Conference North and South play-off finals to Wembley Stadium. This would replace the existing format which guarantees the highest placed team a home tie in the final.

(II) Playing all three Conference play-off finals (Conference Premier, North and South) on the same day - one game after another - in a similar format to how this season's FA Vase and FA Trophy operated.

(III) Removing extra time from the play-off finals to allow three matches to be fitted into one day. Any ties level after 90 minutes would go straight into a penalty shoot-out.

(IV) For the season after next, having six play-off places in each league instead of four. The teams finishing fourth, fifth, sixth and seventh in the table would play-off in a knock-out format whilst the teams finishing second and third receive a "bye" into the semi-finals. 

Any views? My own opinions:

Moving the finals to Wembley will only work if all three ties are staged on the same dates. Would supporters stay to watch all three matches? Whilst the combined FA Vase and FA Trophy finals were well supported, what percentage of Hereford fans stuck around to watch Grimsby versus Halifax? If fans only stay for their own sides' match, wouldn't Wembley have been looking a bit empty for AFC Fylde versus North Ferriby?

The play-offs have largely led to the demise of the FA Trophy. The Conference sides don't seem to take the competition as seriously as they used to - prioritising play-offs as these give a route to the Football League as well as to Wembley. Would a Wembley final also diminish the competition in the eyes of Conference North and Conference South clubs.

What would be the kick-off times for the three finals? Presumably the Conference Premier final would be the showcase final and would take place last - I'm guessing a 5pm kick-off. That could mean 11am and 2pm kick offs for the Conference North and South finals. But if Truro (say) reached the Conference South final and Darlington the Conference North, would either of their sets of supporters be able to get to Wembley for 11? Equally, if Barrow were in the Conference Premier final, would their fans be able to get back to Cumbria afterwards?

Removing extra-time? This would mean more matches being settled by penalty shoot-outs - which are a lottery at the best of times. Why not have an option whereby the lower placed team had to win a play-off match to progress? If matches remain drawn, the side with the higher placed league position goes through / up. This option isn't on the table, but I'd rather do something like this than have games go straight from 90-minutes to a penalty shootout.

Let's not consider the idea of six teams in the play-offs. For the season just gone and using Conference South as an example, it would have meant that Maidenhead United could have sneaked promotion ahead of second placed Ebbsfleet. But Ebbsfleet ended the regular season with 25 more points than Maidenhead! Extending to six clubs wouldn't be right - keep it at four.

[Winging It]

Keep the play off places to four, but a trip to Wembley....who wouldn't want that ! Great incentive on top of gaining promotion.

[The Third Twin]

Keep the play off places to four, but a trip to Wembley....who wouldn't want that ! Great incentive on top of gaining promotion.

what about the team who finish second in the north v the team who finish second in the south? Winner goes up.

[Mickey Nuttells Hair]

Interesting bit from the WSC article on the finals day.  An original and advertised plan was to allow supporters to come and go through the day.  Meaning you did't have to sit there for two hours between games and could soak up atmosphere outside during the build up or get food/drink away from the ground.  For some reason in the run up (after a lot of neutrals had purchased tickets) this was cancelled and you had to stay in and no re-admittance allowed.  Might have helped keep some in the ground for the second game and also got some more there for the first?

Wembley would be a great change, also like the all on one day idea.  Not a fan of extending the number of clubs in the playoffs though as LP says would be a bit odd.

[Pete Brooksbank]

I’m probably in a minority on this one, but I’m not a fan of any non-league playoffs being held at Wembley. I object to two teams that weren’t good enough to win the league being rewarded with a final at the national stadium. For me it demeans the cup competitions – trips to Wembley should be ‘special’ and I don’t believe the play-offs count. And on a practical level it’s completely pointless. Wembley is too big, and watching football in a venue that’s 90% empty is just depressing. Just ask Trinity season ticket holders! Waheeeeeeeey #banter

[howmanynames2pick]

I’m probably in a minority on this one, but I’m not a fan of any non-league playoffs being held at Wembley. I object to two teams that weren’t good enough to win the league being rewarded with a final at the national stadium. For me it demeans the cup competitions – trips to Wembley should be ‘special’ and I don’t believe the play-offs count. And on a practical level it’s completely pointless. Wembley is too big, and watching football in a venue that’s 90% empty is just depressing. Just ask Trinity season ticket holders! Waheeeeeeeey #banter

agree...love the banter

[Adam]

I’m probably in a minority on this one, but I’m not a fan of any non-league playoffs being held at Wembley. I object to two teams that weren’t good enough to win the league being rewarded with a final at the national stadium. For me it demeans the cup competitions – trips to Wembley should be ‘special’ and I don’t believe the play-offs count. And on a practical level it’s completely pointless. Wembley is too big, and watching football in a venue that’s 90% empty is just depressing. Just ask Trinity season ticket holders! Waheeeeeeeey #banter

Agreed. Isn't Wembley a bit big for the 57 fans of North Ferriby and Flyde?

I think the 'ground of the team that finished highest' set up of the North/South play-offs is actually a very neat solution to the question of where to play those finals, given it also provides some reward to the team that was better over the season.

[Kearsley Pilgrim]

I’m probably in a minority on this one, but I’m not a fan of any non-league playoffs being held at Wembley. I object to two teams that weren’t good enough to win the league being rewarded with a final at the national stadium. For me it demeans the cup competitions – trips to Wembley should be ‘special’ and I don’t believe the play-offs count. And on a practical level it’s completely pointless. Wembley is too big, and watching football in a venue that’s 90% empty is just depressing. Just ask Trinity season ticket holders! Waheeeeeeeey #banter

There'll be mixed views for sure - and I'm trying to work out whether I agree with more of the 'for' or the 'against' reasons - but Pete B makes some excellent points here.

Being cynical, this is probably being proposed to try and increase income on the Conference Premier Final day to help pay off the debt of building the place, rather than for any footballing reasons.

So I wonder what ticket prices would be? A ticket to cover all 3 games would almost certainly be a lot more expensive than the admission fee has been to attend either the Conference North or Conference South finals. Cheapest ticket lets say would be £30 - around double the cost. Assuming the Conference Premier Final would be the last game of the day - would you really want to hang around to watch two more games if your team had been in the first game  and lost??? And have paid much more than fans had done in previous seasons for the privilege!!

[Pilgrim86]

The Conference using Wembley is another idea of their inept marketing department to tell the rest of the football world about how great they are.

Leicester's ground is about the right size, and location, for the Premier Final. For the north, maybe Bramall Lane if you're going neutral, and the south I'd say Watford or Reading.

[Winging It]

Another point that needs to be made in the argument 'for' Wembley,  is lets all put ourselves in the boots of any conference north players. I would imagine that going to Wembley would be the highlight of their career, why not give them this chance, and that of the fans of each club who would otherwise be looking at a trip to some tin pot, minor ground for the play offs otherwise. Many of us fans have probably not been to Wembley in many a year, well unless you are one of these two team tossers, lol  :bunny :bunny

[Pete Brooksbank]

Another point that needs to be made in the argument 'for' Wembley,  is lets all put ourselves in the boots of any conference north players. I would imagine that going to Wembley would be the highlight of their career, why not give them this chance, and that of the fans of each club who would otherwise be looking at a trip to some tin pot, minor ground for the play offs otherwise. Many of us fans have probably not been to Wembley in many a year, well unless you are one of these two team tossers, lol  :bunny :bunny

Yes, that's a fair point - but then the more games that get played at Wembley, the more routine it gets and the less of a career highlight it becomes.

In all honesty, had Boston beaten Ferriby and progressed to the final, the thought of going to Wembley wouldn't have appealed to me whatsoever. It's a pain to get there, hugely expensive and much too big. I'd have much rather faced Fylde at a neutral venue somewhere in-between: Chesterfield or somewhere like that.

Genuine cup finals are different, because you're actually going to WIN something. Winning the play-offs isn't winning any kind of silverware really - it's belated promotion from a league you weren't good enough to win outright. It always pains me that we lost out on the NPL title in 2010. Yes, I know we went on to win promotion but I don't count that glass thing as a real trophy... I wanted some actual silverware. I still haven't seen Boston win anything 'properly'!

[Pilgrim86]

Another point that needs to be made in the argument 'for' Wembley,  is lets all put ourselves in the boots of any conference north players. I would imagine that going to Wembley would be the highlight of their career, why not give them this chance, and that of the fans of each club who would otherwise be looking at a trip to some tin pot, minor ground for the play offs otherwise. Many of us fans have probably not been to Wembley in many a year, well unless you are one of these two team tossers, lol  :bunny :bunny

Or been to watch the national team... if that's acceptable to you?

[Ferret]

Another point that needs to be made in the argument 'for' Wembley,  is lets all put ourselves in the boots of any conference north players. I would imagine that going to Wembley would be the highlight of their career, why not give them this chance, and that of the fans of each club who would otherwise be looking at a trip to some tin pot, minor ground for the play offs otherwise. Many of us fans have probably not been to Wembley in many a year, well unless you are one of these two team tossers, lol  :bunny :bunny

Or been to watch the national team... if that's acceptable to you?

Or AC/DC.........

[joshb]

Keep it as it is, although for me I would have no extra time or penalties..... instead if the game/tie is a draw, the team who finished higher up goes through as a reward for finishing higher over 42 games.
Also makes one team come out and attack, rather than both be edgy and settle for a draw

[leicester pilgrim]

Leicester's ground is about the right size, and location, for the Premier Final. For the north, maybe Bramall Lane if you're going neutral, and the south I'd say Watford or Reading.

Very little parking available at Leicester's ground though. For a play off final (where more supporters may travel by car and hardly any on foot), that has to be a consideration. Not that Wembley would be better, mind.