O/T In or out

[howmanynames2pick]

send it to Matt Warman and get him to learn it off by heart......

[green hats mate]

I was brought up in the Lincolnshire fens ,  most the farmers were always keen to tell anyone who would listen that they would "be bankrupt next year if things didn't alter "  , fighting for increased subsidies of cause .    Don't recall any of them going under .
 
Moving  into the contracting industry lo and behold it seemed doomed ,  bosses predicting widespread failure ,  another strategy for government help .   Don't recall any of them going under .

May and Brussels are doing the same as any good business does ,  working for the best deal . 

If any of us really knew the long term outcome of Brexit I don't think we would be playing on Patter , we would be too busy playing the money markets



Osbourne and Dave assured us that if Brexit won the referendum,  within  months there would be financial mayhem ,  including widespread unemployment , homes repossessed etc .      Completely wrong of cause ,  Dave,s never had it so good and Geo has been able to  give up one of his jobs .   Pleased that so far their wisdom is turning out ill founded .

As an old timer who has heard it all I say ignore the politicians and so called experts (vested interests) , instead listen to the words of youngchubby 69 .
Relax and watch a new economy evolve .







 

[AdyG]

The problem is that we're fed biased information, Murdoch (Australian with US passport) has backed the winner since 1979 with exaggerated or untrue news headlines, when questioned why he was so opposed to the EU he replied 'that's easy, when i go into Downing street they do what i say; when i go to Brussels they take no notice'. Members of his organisation are regularly having secret meetings with members of government.

Any party with rich billionaire donors such as the tory party will never clamp down on tax evasion/avoidance, recently they voted down a law that would have required landlords to make their homes 'fit for human habitation' (they can make these laws in UK parliament without EU approval).  Currently the strong & stable Mrs Mayhem is avoiding the public & only letting journalists ask pre-arranged questions (not even being able to hold the microphone in some cases), her meetings are in local tory hqs & visiting factories where journalists have been barred from attending. No live TV debate. Similar actions to a dictator?

our 'so called' Democracy, we live in a first past the post system with 2015 Election resulting in 1 Tory MP per 35000 votes, 1 UKIP MP per 4 million votes, & 1 Green MP for every 1.2Million votes for them.

The moment Mrs Mayhem uttered the words 'hard brexit' the pound devalued, resulting in increased costs in drugs for the NHS, all imported products or products with imported parts also increase in cost. Yes this can benefit exporters, people with savings abroad in tax havens, & our houses & businesses are now cheaper for foreign investers. Hopefully brexit will be a success, but a success for who?

We're told that unemployment is at record lows & that immigrants contribute more to the economy than they take out. We're told that public services are at breaking point. We're told the economy under the conservatives is 'strong & stable'. If all these are correct then it points to the government completely failing to collect taxes & allocate funding properly to the right areas. We have full time workers needing in-work benefits as their 'living wage' doesnt cover their living costs. We have nurses using foodbanks for heavens sake!

Homelessness - since Thatcher started selling off council houses we are now paying a fortune to private landlords in rent, it might have raised some funds at the time (as with other privatisations) but longterm its more expensive. Maybe should have invested in more social housing?

These are all my thoughts & observations. People need to think & research carefully from neutral sources before voting on elections. Personally i decide the night before the vote, but with our first past the post system do i vote how i believe or tactically? Do I vote for the local candidate or the national party? I'm yet to decide.

[The Big M]

We did have a chance to make the electoral system for a fairer one. People voted against it.

[Adam]

The problem is that we're fed biased information, Murdoch (Australian with US passport) has backed the winner since 1979 with exaggerated or untrue news headlines, when questioned why he was so opposed to the EU he replied 'that's easy, when i go into Downing street they do what i say; when i go to Brussels they take no notice'. Members of his organisation are regularly having secret meetings with members of government.

Any party with rich billionaire donors such as the tory party will never clamp down on tax evasion/avoidance, recently they voted down a law that would have required landlords to make their homes 'fit for human habitation' (they can make these laws in UK parliament without EU approval).  Currently the strong & stable Mrs Mayhem is avoiding the public & only letting journalists ask pre-arranged questions (not even being able to hold the microphone in some cases), her meetings are in local tory hqs & visiting factories where journalists have been barred from attending. No live TV debate. Similar actions to a dictator?

our 'so called' Democracy, we live in a first past the post system with 2015 Election resulting in 1 Tory MP per 35000 votes, 1 UKIP MP per 4 million votes, & 1 Green MP for every 1.2Million votes for them.

The moment Mrs Mayhem uttered the words 'hard brexit' the pound devalued, resulting in increased costs in drugs for the NHS, all imported products or products with imported parts also increase in cost. Yes this can benefit exporters, people with savings abroad in tax havens, & our houses & businesses are now cheaper for foreign investers. Hopefully brexit will be a success, but a success for who?

We're told that unemployment is at record lows & that immigrants contribute more to the economy than they take out. We're told that public services are at breaking point. We're told the economy under the conservatives is 'strong & stable'. If all these are correct then it points to the government completely failing to collect taxes & allocate funding properly to the right areas. We have full time workers needing in-work benefits as their 'living wage' doesnt cover their living costs. We have nurses using foodbanks for heavens sake!

Homelessness - since Thatcher started selling off council houses we are now paying a fortune to private landlords in rent, it might have raised some funds at the time (as with other privatisations) but longterm its more expensive. Maybe should have invested in more social housing?

These are all my thoughts & observations. People need to think & research carefully from neutral sources before voting on elections. Personally i decide the night before the vote, but with our first past the post system do i vote how i believe or tactically? Do I vote for the local candidate or the national party? I'm yet to decide.

Lots of very good points. Theresa May is a hopeless public speaker for someone who has reached high office, and in terms of other political abilities, I suspect she's average at best (although it's hard to tell because she's so secretive). The trouble is that Corbyn makes her look like JFK or Barack Obama!

The strength of our economy is massively overplayed. Our productivity levels are poor compared to France/Germany, and if you took out London and just looked at the rest of the country, they would be dire. I would blame years of underinvestment in the regions, from both major parties.

[Ed Kandi]

Its looking ever more likely that my prediction of an in/in referendum was wrong, and Brexit really will mean Brexit  8)
Still a long way to go though 

[Fairfax]

It's been a while since I last commented on this thread, though I am happy to have been in at the beginning. So far I have seen my hopes realised and that we are well on the way to reclaiming our independence. The forthcoming election is really about one thing and that is our independence. Although a life long socialist, I will be backing Teresa May to finish the job.

However, although I may not be around to see it, as I have inoperable liver cancer and have no idea how long I have left, I predict that the Labour Party will eventually find a moderate socialist leader who will carry the country on many of the policies which are proving to be popular despite the current leader. Winston Churchill lead us successfully in a battle for survival, but then saw the country come out in favour of socialist policies, which gave us institutions which we take for granted today. I think that history will repeat itself. If it does, then I hope that a future Labour government is not as naive as some of those in the past, but treads carefully. One final thought: We must continue as Great Britain. Let's tolerate none of this nonsense about splitting up into rump states.

[howmanynames2pick]

chuffing wars Fairfax....that's a post!

I hope you are wrong about your liver I really do ..but hope the rest is true...
wishing you all the best

[youngchubby69]

Theft sorry stock hear of your health problems,wish you well Fairfax

[howmanynames2pick]

 The trouble is that Corbyn makes her look like JFK or Barack Obama!


[/quote]
JFK was a serial womaniser and if he were in power today probably wouldn't last long.....hold on..Trump is President.
Obama i thought seemed a decent guy yet he was so unpopular in the States.

[Dipdodah]

It's been a while since I last commented on this thread, though I am happy to have been in at the beginning. So far I have seen my hopes realised and that we are well on the way to reclaiming our independence. The forthcoming election is really about one thing and that is our independence. Although a life long socialist, I will be backing Teresa May to finish the job.

However, although I may not be around to see it, as I have inoperable liver cancer and have no idea how long I have left, I predict that the Labour Party will eventually find a moderate socialist leader who will carry the country on many of the policies which are proving to be popular despite the current leader. Winston Churchill lead us successfully in a battle for survival, but then saw the country come out in favour of socialist policies, which gave us institutions which we take for granted today. I think that history will repeat itself. If it does, then I hope that a future Labour government is not as naive as some of those in the past, but treads carefully. One final thought: We must continue as Great Britain. Let's tolerate none of this nonsense about splitting up into rump states.

I hope you have many more years left, and I hope the NHS is still here to give you support.  I, like you have voted Labour all my life, but we need an hard Brexit and I hate to admit it but we may get this with May.  Listening to Labour's manifesto yesterday, I think like you, under a different leader they would succeed.  Take care.

[Pete Brooksbank]

Even now, nearly a year on, I have absolutely no idea why anyone would wish a 'hard' Brexit on the country. It's completely baffling. Hundreds of thousands of people will lose their jobs, and this time this isn't the waffling of 'project fear' but the practical reality of life outside the EU trading bloc trading on WTO terms.

To wish this on the UK is like saying you don't like your bald patch and blowing your head off with a shotgun to solve the problem. In all the months since we voted out, I have yet to read a single argument for it that makes sense, or isn't based on delusional fantasies.

Theresa May, for her many faults, is too intelligent to pursue hard Brexit and will surely face down her back-benchers as the catastrophic damage it will inflict on the economy becomes ever clearer. Indeed, a bigger majority for her in the Commons - while a disaster for the NHS and public services in general - might actually be the lesser of two evils.

[Dipdodah]

It's been a while since I last commented on this thread, though I am happy to have been in at the beginning. So far I have seen my hopes realised and that we are well on the way to reclaiming our independence. The forthcoming election is really about one thing and that is our independence. Although a life long socialist, I will be backing Teresa May to finish the job.

However, although I may not be around to see it, as I have inoperable liver cancer and have no idea how long I have left, I predict that the Labour Party will eventually find a moderate socialist leader who will carry the country on many of the policies which are proving to be popular despite the current leader. Winston Churchill lead us successfully in a battle for survival, but then saw the country come out in favour of socialist policies, which gave us institutions which we take for granted today. I think that history will repeat itself. If it does, then I hope that a future Labour government is not as naive as some of those in the past, but treads carefully. One final thought: We must continue as Great Britain. Let's tolerate none of this nonsense about splitting up into rump states.

I hope you have many more years left, and I hope the NHS is still here to give you support.  I, like you have voted Labour all my life, but we need an hard Brexit and I hate to admit it but we may get this with May.  Listening to Labour's manifesto yesterday, I think like you, under a different leader they would succeed.  Take care.

Well the outcome is not so clear cut.  Labour are making inroads into the Tory lead.  A week as gone by since above post and I think Corbyn is coming through this campaign in a lot better shape than May.  In my opinion the worst thing for this country, is if any party has a Thatcher type massive majority.  We do not want a hung parliament with Brexit talks just round the corner, but a small majority to keep them on their toes would be ideal.

[Ed Kandi]

Too many Japanese soldiers who still don't know the war is over...although May could still bottle it and leave us in the Single Market and Customs Union. 

Great post Fairfax, hope you're around to see your wishes come true...

[howmanynames2pick]

http://openeurope.org.uk/blog/tags/european-council/