Author Topic: O/T In or out  (Read 306948 times)

Lady GaGa

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Re: O/T In or out
« Reply #120 on: June 06, 2016, 10:23:10 PM »
I'm afraid in or out the NHS will never be safe under the Conservatives! My feeling is either way it is only a matter of time😢.

The Third Twin

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Re: O/T In or out
« Reply #121 on: June 06, 2016, 11:28:47 PM »
I'm afraid in or out the NHS will never be safe under the Conservatives! My feeling is either way it is only a matter of time😢.
half the problem with the nhs is the appts are taken by foreign nationals, currently legally here, but have never put anything into national ins payments, which is causing a deficit in funds. Add this to the fines the nhs have inflicted on them due to the waiting lists not being given appts in time, and there's no wonder it's in a mess. Easy answer, vote no, reduce the freeloaders and reduce waiting times and let the people who pay the national ins benefit in a more timely fashion....end result....a more stable nhs.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2016, 11:30:24 PM by The Happy Clapping Twin »
He who would valiant be , 'gainst all disaster.
Let him in constancy follow the master.
There's no discouragement shall make him once relent
His first avowed intent, to be a Pilgrim.

John Bunyan, 1684

Fairfax

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Re: O/T In or out
« Reply #122 on: June 07, 2016, 01:27:04 AM »
It's not about the economy.
It's not about immigration.
It's not about trade.
It's not about the NHS.
It's not about who is or isn't telling the truth.
It's not about the fact that the European Union is in a state of near collapse that will drag us down with the rest if we stay, when it inevitably implodes.

It's about the treasonable act by those who signed away our sovereignty with the Maastricht Treaty. I do not wish and never have wished to give away my rights, enshrined in law, which still stands on the statute books despite the actions of the traitors, making me subservient to a European super state. A vote for that is a classical example of turkeys voting for Christmas.

It's that simple. I want my freedom as a British Citizen. Nothing, NOTHING else matters.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2016, 01:30:17 AM by Fairfax »

flynny69

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Re: O/T In or out
« Reply #123 on: June 07, 2016, 08:06:27 AM »
I'm afraid in or out the NHS will never be safe under the Conservatives! My feeling is either way it is only a matter of time😢.
half the problem with the nhs is the appts are taken by foreign nationals, currently legally here, but have never put anything into national ins payments, which is causing a deficit in funds. Add this to the fines the nhs have inflicted on them due to the waiting lists not being given appts in time, and there's no wonder it's in a mess. Easy answer, vote no, reduce the freeloaders and reduce waiting times and let the people who pay the national ins benefit in a more timely fashion....end result....a more stable nhs.

Who pays more money in taxes 'foreign nationals' (which must include everyone who is not a UK citizen - French, Spanish, Italian, German, Chinese, Indian etc) or those UK citizens who are in receipt of job seeking benefits?

Of course there are other strains on the NHS; chronic underfunding, too many managers rather than physicians, an increase in demand on resources for obesity and mental health problems etc.

Dipdodah

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Re: O/T In or out
« Reply #124 on: June 07, 2016, 08:25:28 AM »
Last day to register to vote.

Whether you vote remain or leave, VOTE.
Does DNA stand for National Dyslexia Association?----asking for a friend.

Pete B

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Re: O/T In or out
« Reply #125 on: June 07, 2016, 10:48:45 AM »
I'm afraid in or out the NHS will never be safe under the Conservatives! My feeling is either way it is only a matter of time😢.
half the problem with the nhs is the appts are taken by foreign nationals, currently legally here, but have never put anything into national ins payments, which is causing a deficit in funds. Add this to the fines the nhs have inflicted on them due to the waiting lists not being given appts in time, and there's no wonder it's in a mess. Easy answer, vote no, reduce the freeloaders and reduce waiting times and let the people who pay the national ins benefit in a more timely fashion....end result....a more stable nhs.

You do realise, I hope, that the foreign nationals who are 'currently legally here' will also be 'currently legally here' AFTER a Brexit vote? Unless they have committed a criminal offence, they will have the right to remain in the country. Furthermore, if we choose to remain as part of the single market, then freedom of movement will be retained, since it is a fundamental requirement of remaining. The UK will simply not be permitted any exemptions on this.

In any event, even if we choose to ditch the single market and its requirement for free movement as well, the numerous reciprocal travel arrangements made on a piecemeal basis after a Brexit vote will likely mean net migration is reduced, but by absolutely nowhere near the levels stated by the leave campaign. There will be no Australian style points-based system, and it is disingenuous of the leave campaign to suggest that there will be. If you're voting 'out' purely on the immigration issue, prepare to be horribly disappointed.

Here's some more information about the true, unrecoverable costs to the NHS from foreign visitors: https://fullfact.org/health/health-tourists-how-much-do-they-cost-and-who-pays/
« Last Edit: June 07, 2016, 10:58:51 AM by Pete B »

Maxross

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Re: O/T In or out
« Reply #126 on: June 07, 2016, 11:33:34 AM »

Ed Kandi

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Re: O/T In or out
« Reply #127 on: June 07, 2016, 12:46:15 PM »
The word 'migrant' means someone who moves from one country to another, the reasons for this movement can vary but the definition of the word remains the same.

Without going through all this obfuscation and disinformation the facts remain clear :-

Vote in for mass uncontrolled immigration and the selling off of our NHS, and most importantly as Fairfax has said, the complete loss of our sovereignity.

Vote out for control of our borders, for the opportunity to vote out any future government that wants to privatise the NHS, and vote out to avoid losing our hard fought for Sovereignity and to avoid being dictated to by a bunch of unelected, unremoveable, faceless beaurocrats.

Whether anyone votes or not would appear to ultimately be a personal choice IMO, no need for patronising comments on that score   :dan

Pete B

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Re: O/T In or out
« Reply #128 on: June 07, 2016, 01:23:03 PM »
The word 'migrant' means someone who moves from one country to another, the reasons for this movement can vary but the definition of the word remains the same.

Without going through all this obfuscation and disinformation the facts remain clear :-

Vote in for mass uncontrolled immigration and the selling off of our NHS, and most importantly as Fairfax has said, the complete loss of our sovereignity.

Vote out for control of our borders, for the opportunity to vote out any future government that wants to privatise the NHS, and vote out to avoid losing our hard fought for Sovereignity and to avoid being dictated to by a bunch of unelected, unremoveable, faceless beaurocrats.

Whether anyone votes or not would appear to ultimately be a personal choice IMO, no need for patronising comments on that score   :dan

Quick 'fact' check here:-

1 - 'Unelected' - incorrect, we elect the European Parliament every five years.
2 - 'Dictated to' - incorrect, only the *elected* EU Parliament has the power to create EU laws. The EU Commission, which includes representation from the United Kingdom, merely helps enforce them.
3 - 'Control of borders' - see my post above. If we leave the European Union but remain in the European Economic Area, we must also retain the free movement of people, which means there will quite literally be NO change to the current border arrangements. If we opt to leave the common market, then the oft-touted benefits of 'being like Norway' would no longer apply. We might choose to defy the treaty and impose a cap anyway - this will come with consequences.

Maxross

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Re: O/T In or out
« Reply #129 on: June 07, 2016, 01:25:04 PM »
The word 'migrant' means someone who moves from one country to another, the reasons for this movement can vary but the definition of the word remains the same.

Without going through all this obfuscation and disinformation the facts remain clear :-

Vote in for mass uncontrolled immigration and the selling off of our NHS, and most importantly as Fairfax has said, the complete loss of our sovereignity.

Vote out for control of our borders, for the opportunity to vote out any future government that wants to privatise the NHS, and vote out to avoid losing our hard fought for Sovereignity and to avoid being dictated to by a bunch of unelected, unremoveable, faceless beaurocrats.

Whether anyone votes or not would appear to ultimately be a personal choice IMO, no need for patronising comments on that score   :dan

You've pretty much proven what I suspected which is that you are closed minded. You have described reasoned debate as "obfuscation and disinformation". In other words, anything you disagree with is disinformation and anything you agree with is fact. That's fair enough of course, you're entitled to an opinion, but then so are other people so don't be surprised if you get challenged on it when you post it on here or on other public forums. I'm open minded and if you can disprove anything I've posted, feel free to challenge it and if merited, I'll change my opinion accordingly.

Regarding the term "migrant", the full definition is pretty specific according to my dictionary and is as follows "a person who moves from one place to another to find work or better living conditions". (I guess you just quoted the bit you agreed with and ignored the bit you didn't assuming it to be "disinformation"!!) I suppose you could stretch "better living conditions" to avoiding being murdered by ISIS, but I'd consider that a bit of an understatement personally. The definition of Refugee : "a person who has been forced to leave their country in order to escape war, persecution or natural disaster". I think those definitions vindicate my original point personally.

Regarding me encouraging people to vote. I'm genuinely sorry if you felt patronised, however, voter apathy is a major issue, with our current government being elected by just 24% of the eligible population. I won't apologise for encouraging people to exercise their democratic right on such an important issue that will have long lasting effects whichever way it goes. Even if an increased turnout means Exit wins, I would still encourage people to vote.

« Last Edit: June 07, 2016, 01:40:17 PM by Maxross »

oxo

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Re: O/T In or out
« Reply #130 on: June 07, 2016, 02:05:18 PM »
Whilst the subject is worthy of debate I would like to know the In or out at the football club. There has been little information regarding the retained list which was always available from John Blackwell. Three signings have been made and Jay Rollins and two or three who played bit parts last season. I have purchased my season ticket but the lack of information coming from the club is doing nothing to promote these sales. The Chairman stated the playing budget had been improved and there would be initiatives to raise money for the shortfall on the new stadium funds, What are they? and when will be able to offer our help as supporters?. This season is going to be tough and we need to be hitting the ground running and not repeating the failures of last year. I accept the manager may be well into the process of getting players in and is not in a position to reveal until they have signed on the dotted line, but surely someone at the club should be keeping the fans interested.

oxo

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Re: O/T In or out
« Reply #131 on: June 07, 2016, 02:10:06 PM »
Whilst the subject is worthy of debate I would like to know the In or out at the football club. There has been little information regarding the retained list which was always available from John Blackwell. Three signings have been made and Jay Rollins and two or three who played bit parts last season. I have purchased my season ticket but the lack of information coming from the club is doing nothing to promote these sales. The Chairman stated the playing budget had been improved and there would be initiatives to raise money for the shortfall on the new stadium funds, What are they? and when will be able to offer our help as supporters?. This season is going to be tough and we need to be hitting the ground running and not repeating the failures of last year. I accept the manager may be well into the process of getting players in and is not in a position to reveal until they have signed on the dotted line, but surely someone at the club should be keeping the fans interested.





Well while I was writing the above the club reveals information I am asking foral though it is not very encouraging.

Maxross

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Re: O/T In or out
« Reply #132 on: June 07, 2016, 06:03:35 PM »

green hats mate

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Re: O/T In or out
« Reply #133 on: June 08, 2016, 03:28:38 PM »
Don,t think anyone will rush out to vote on the basis of the Cameron v Farage debate last night ,   weak performance from both .

Dipdodah

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Re: O/T In or out
« Reply #134 on: June 08, 2016, 07:19:34 PM »
I am going to throw in a conspiracy theory ;)

With the registration website overloading last night, and the deadline to register now tomorrow, who would this hiccup help most?

Leave or remain?  Considering the majority of people struggling to register are younger voters ???
Does DNA stand for National Dyslexia Association?----asking for a friend.