Author Topic: O/T In or out  (Read 306758 times)

howmanynames2pick

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Re: O/T In or out
« Reply #105 on: June 05, 2016, 02:10:40 PM »
It's out for me. Last chance for the British people to save their nation before the inevitable United States of Europe rules officially with the eradication of our British values and a distortion of history. Can see very dark times ahead for the next generations - but can they see it too?
Wise words BB

Ed Kandi

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Re: O/T In or out
« Reply #106 on: June 05, 2016, 05:43:46 PM »
Documents have been leaked which confirm that the NHS will be sold off/privatised when the TTIP deal is finally agreed.
Greenpeace Netherlands revealed these Brussels documents - Dodgy Dave was hoping this would not get out until after the vote.
If we stay in it seems inevitable that eventually this deal will be agreed,  so it is now a straightforward choice between keeping our NHS or staying in the EU  :police:
« Last Edit: June 05, 2016, 05:53:14 PM by Ed Kandi »

Maxross

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Re: O/T In or out
« Reply #107 on: June 05, 2016, 10:41:44 PM »
Documents have been leaked which confirm that the NHS will be sold off/privatised when the TTIP deal is finally agreed.
Greenpeace Netherlands revealed these Brussels documents - Dodgy Dave was hoping this would not get out until after the vote.
If we stay in it seems inevitable that eventually this deal will be agreed,  so it is now a straightforward choice between keeping our NHS or staying in the EU  :police:

I think it's a piece of willful self delusion if you consider the EU as the greatest threat to the NHS and the Brexit crowd as some kind of saviours. We're talking of individuals such as Ian Duncan Smith, Michael Gove, Boris Johnson, Nigel Farage, all of whom have long term form when it come to free market economics and decreasing the role of state. You are right to be concerned about TTIP, but I would have thought that anything the Brexit crowd cook up in its place in negotiations with the Americans, will be far more detrimental to anything state run.

Dipdodah

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Re: O/T In or out
« Reply #108 on: June 06, 2016, 08:32:06 AM »
Which ever way we look at it, the NHS is in shambles.  Too many health tourists, an ageing population and a shortage of medical staff.

It needs an injection of cash, some of the millions we give away to the EU would help.

Last November I had an ECG at my local doctors, this showed a problem.  I had 24 hour monitoring via the Pilgrim in March.  I got my results back last week and am being referred to Lincoln cardiac dept, with an estimated waiting time of 4 months.  On my working out that is nearly a year before they can even tell me what the problem is.  VOTE OUT.
Does DNA stand for National Dyslexia Association?----asking for a friend.

Ed Kandi

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Re: O/T In or out
« Reply #109 on: June 06, 2016, 09:46:57 AM »
Cameron recently stated  "the NHS is completely protected in the TTIP deal, and to say otherwise is the reddest of red herrings".
Well the leaked Brussels papers prove that Cameron has lied to the British public once again.
These papers make it clear that TTIP presents an existential threat to our NHS.
It would now appear to be a matter of fact that if we vote to remain we will end up in TTIP and then it is just a matter of time before we lose the NHS.
No self-delusion required, just a look at certain papers that dodgy Dave didn't want the British public to see  :police:

howmanynames2pick

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Re: O/T In or out
« Reply #110 on: June 06, 2016, 10:43:47 AM »
Immigration? Speak to a red squirrel
Trade? We import more than we export....
Security? We are in NATO and Interpol...whether we're in or out of Europe.
Travel?.....have to show passport on leaving or returning to uk ...that won't change.

I was at an event yesterday that finished by singing Land of Hope and Glory.
(Not some right wing EDL nonsense event but a dance showcase!....bit of a Last night of the Proms affair)
Look up the words....
If you like them vote out...
If you want to be without Hope or Glory vote in.
This is FAR more important than a general election.....

Maxross

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Re: O/T In or out
« Reply #111 on: June 06, 2016, 11:11:52 AM »

Ed Kandi

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Re: O/T In or out
« Reply #112 on: June 06, 2016, 11:57:21 AM »
The Leave campaign have stated that money saved from our weekly EU contribution will be spent on the NHS, it is printed in 3 foot high letters on the side of the battlebus so it would be nigh on impossible to renege on that promise.

Most of the misinformation has been from the Remain side over the economy.  They've teed-up a list of economists to produce forecasts of gloom and doom covering twenty years or more after a Brexit, and yet if you look back it becomes clear that historically these so called experts have been unable to accurately predict anything regarding economics over even a six month period let alone ten to twenty years - just another stitch up by the dave and george media manipulation machine  :police:

Maxross

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Re: O/T In or out
« Reply #113 on: June 06, 2016, 12:24:44 PM »
The Leave campaign have stated that money saved from our weekly EU contribution will be spent on the NHS, it is printed in 3 foot high letters on the side of the battlebus so it would be nigh on impossible to renege on that promise.

Most of the misinformation has been from the Remain side over the economy.  They've teed-up a list of economists to produce forecasts of gloom and doom covering twenty years or more after a Brexit, and yet if you look back it becomes clear that historically these so called experts have been unable to accurately predict anything regarding economics over even a six month period let alone ten to twenty years - just another stitch up by the dave and george media manipulation machine  :police:

Re the Remain camp, I agree, they've made plenty of dubious claims, as someone who's pro remain, Cameron has done more to pursuade me to change my mind and vote out than any of the Out campaigners! People often mistake economics for a science when it is anything but. However, I think you are being incredibly blinkered if you think that remain are the only ones telling porkies. As an example, you quote that they will spend the money saved from EU contributions to reinvest in the NHS. That figure itself is highly dubious and the figure used by Gove, Johnson etc has even been disowned by Farage. I'd say it's nigh on impossible for you to quantify how much we make or lose from our EU contribution because there are many unquantifiable benefits to being in the EU and common market currently.

So both sides are lying and basically voting out is a jump into the unknown. It could be a huge success to exit, or it could be an utter disaster. It could be that it's about the same. My personal feeling is that whatever happens, we are going to need to continue to trade with the EU and therefore will have to continue to adhere to EU regulations. With that in mind, I'd sooner remain and have an opportunity to mould the conditions than to be on the outside. With a seat at the table we retain some control and the opportunity to press for reform the policies we don't like.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2016, 12:30:12 PM by Maxross »

Dipdodah

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Re: O/T In or out
« Reply #114 on: June 06, 2016, 12:51:31 PM »
The truth is we are little more than an onlooker anyway. 

We have not embraced fully the concept of an united Europe.

We are about the only country in the EU where we have to show a passport( I am in agreement with this )

We are not a part of the Euro ( I am in agreement with this )

We are on the outside looking in on an exclusive club.

On most votes we only have the power of veto.

A bit like the Eurovision song contest :D

Let's get out and be done with it, and be in control of our own future.  Even if it is with Dodgey Dave or  Corbyn the red.
Does DNA stand for National Dyslexia Association?----asking for a friend.

Lady GaGa

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Re: O/T In or out
« Reply #115 on: June 06, 2016, 12:54:48 PM »
I am completely with Maxross with on the NHS  but would go further to say the demise began in the Thatcher years. Having been an NHS employee from the early 70's have witnessed many changes including some of the last 6 years before retiring. The increasing pressure to perform efficiently with a continuing raise in expectations from both management and the public whilst increasingly working with less resources is totally demoralising and to some extent demotivating. I personally feel they are all heroes for sticking with it!! I also agree most definitely with the need for an increase in funding and am sure virtually every taxpayer in the Uk would be happy to contribute extra tax to meet the need.
Referring to the US comparison, earlier this year had a couple of Americans staying who needed to avail themselves of our NHS one with a GP visit and the other to our Pilgrim A&E both were more than well satisfied with the care they received, particularly the one who visited A&E, after a thorough examination investigations advice,reassurance and a prescription, which gave him the peace of mind he was able to continue his trip. He was gobsmacked that it was free at source.
With regards to the 3 foot high letters one of the promoters has already admitted in recent days during a TV interview that not all of the money would  go straight to the NHS!!!

Maxross

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Re: O/T In or out
« Reply #116 on: June 06, 2016, 01:14:04 PM »

Dipdodah

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Re: O/T In or out
« Reply #117 on: June 06, 2016, 01:39:50 PM »
Does DNA stand for National Dyslexia Association?----asking for a friend.

Maxross

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Re: O/T In or out
« Reply #118 on: June 06, 2016, 02:02:49 PM »

Ed Kandi

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Re: O/T In or out
« Reply #119 on: June 06, 2016, 10:12:42 PM »
There is now very little doubt that if we remain in the EU then the NHS as we know it will eventually cease to exist.
Also, if we remain in the EU, with no control over who enters our country, before it ceases to exist in it's present form it will become increasingly under pressure and unable to cope with demand.
The timescale for these two eventualities is impossible to ascertain, but we know that in Germany for example, the millions of migrants that Merkel is intent on letting in  will be given EU passports if they stay,  and will therefore be able to move to any part of the EU that they choose.
The same will apply to the millions of Turkish citizens who Cameron is so keen to let in to the EU despite what he is now saying.  A few months ago he was telling the Turks that he was their greatest ally and was intent on fast-tracking their accession to the EU, now he is assuring the British public that it will be the year 3000 before they join; he will just say whatever suits his agenda at any given time.
The recent migrant deal the EU struck with Turkey is about to go tits up as Erdogan has sacked the man who did the deal and has taken control.  Erdogan doesn't mess about and will be aiming for a far better deal; the EU, in the face of the migrant crisis, will find it difficult to say no to his demands.

So although we don't know exactly when it's going to happen we do know that the pressure on an underfunded NHS will increase if we stay in the EU, and also we know that it will eventually be sold off after TTIP is ratified.

If we vote out then we will immediately retake control of our borders and start restricting immigration numbers to a realistic level.  The pressure on the NHS and other benefits systems will lessen, and additional money will be available to improve these services.  Nobody knows the exact figures,  but we do know that millions of pounds are transferred to the EU every week - this fact has never been disputed,  the debates always end up in petty squabbles over the exact amount, how much we get back as a rebate etc, but these things don't make much difference, the fact is that millions of pounds that now leave our country every week will stay in this country if we vote to leave.

The other thing that we know for sure if we do leave the EU is that we will not have an unelected committee of faceless American and European corporate fat cats selling off our NHS.
If privatisation of the NHS does come up the British public will be in a position to vote against such a move whereas if we stay in we will not.  :police: