O/T In or out

[tom and jerry]

And the Leave Campaign has just been fined for overspending on its ad campaign too I think

Lies and breaking the rules. Quality organisation eh?

If this all goes t**ts up as it may well done it'd be worth remembering that when we voted to come out things weren't really that bad. But it's a vote for change I guess

Interesting times ahead

[Dipdodah]

And the Leave Campaign has just been fined for overspending on its ad campaign too I think

Lies and breaking the rules. Quality organisation eh?

If this all goes t**ts up as it may well done it'd be worth remembering that when we voted to come out things weren't really that bad. But it's a vote for change I guess

Interesting times ahead

So nine million of YOUR money was not spent on leaflets to advice us to remain ( short memory me thinks )

So Tom and Jerry, you are happy to be controlled by Europe with no say, no vote and no chance of change.

That is what you have to look forward.

They have lied to the Majority, they have lied to the minority as well but you choose not to admit it.

A sad state of affairs I am afraid .

[oxo]

And the Leave Campaign has just been fined for overspending on its ad campaign too I think

Lies and breaking the rules. Quality organisation eh?

If this all goes t**ts up as it may well done it'd be worth remembering that when we voted to come out things weren't really that bad. But it's a vote for change I guess

Interesting times ahead

So nine million of YOUR money was not spent on leaflets to advice us to remain ( short memory me thinks )

So Bodge, you are happy to be controlled by Europe with no say, no vote and no chance of change.

That is what you have to look forward.

They have lied to the Majority, they have lied to the minority as well but they choose not to admit it.

A sad state of affairs I am afraid Bodge.

Mick I don't think it is Bodge you should be referring to. The ridiculous comments have come from the cartoon character which more or less says it all.

[Dipdodah]

Sorry Mel, I shall change it.  Sorry Bodge

[Maxross]

I was/am a supporter of the remain viewpoint. However, like it or not the result was pretty clear. I have always thought that to attempt to challenge that result as many of neoliberal persuasion have, is very dangerous for democracy. At the point where societies lose faith in democracy, history tells us they tend to turn towards extremists. And yes I know the implications of Brexit before anyone lectures me.

[Pete Brooksbank]

So Tom and Jerry, you are happy to be controlled by Europe with no say, no vote and no chance of change.

That is what you have to look forward.

No, that's exactly what YOU'VE voted for. We had a seat at the table before. Now we don't, and if we want to continue trading with our biggest trading partner we're going to have to abide by all their rules/regulations without having any role in helping formulate them.

This is what you wanted, you won, so this is what you're going to get.

[tom and jerry]

I agree with you Pete

It was ok before - now it might not be. But, by the same token, we don't know what it would have been like if the vote for change hadn't happened

Everyone's entitled to their opinion. Doesn't mean anyone's right or wrong either, that's what reasoned debate is all about

I just hope our great country remains great in its new guise. Time will tell

[Dipdodah]

So Tom and Jerry, you are happy to be controlled by Europe with no say, no vote and no chance of change.

That is what you have to look forward.

No, that's exactly what YOU'VE voted for. We had a seat at the table before. Now we don't, and if we want to continue trading with our biggest trading partner we're going to have to abide by all their rules/regulations without having any role in helping formulate them.

This is what you wanted, you won, so this is what you're going to get.

No Pete, this is NOT what we voted for and you know it.

What is happening is an old pals act, whispering in corridors and lifts, carving up the money and being part of the gravy train which is the EU.

It is corrupt.  Take a look around you, have you ever seen the roads in such a state?  Have you seen the NHS in such a mess?  Have you ever seen the Police so underfunded?  Well I have not.  With 66 million people in this country and growing where does the money go?  I and 17.5 million people have had enough, that is why we voted out.

I am not stupid, I know how intertwined we are and how complex the leaving process is.  So remainers think we are, we have been called brain dead, phlebs etc.

We voted OUT, we did not vote let's stay in but pretend we are out.

We are weak, stand up to the bullies.

I hate Trump and what he stands for, but at least he does what he says.

We have been sold down the line, and YOU know it.

[Pete Brooksbank]

The things you've just pointed out to me are the result of Tory cuts to local services. The EU is no more responsible for the state of our roads than I am for the weather on Mars.

And if you think the hard Brexit you crave will fix the state of our roads... I can't help you.

[Dipdodah]

Pete, surely, as one of only three net contributors to the EU, GB would be better off looking after our own, rather than paying towards other countries inadequacies.

The price of membership is far too high.

Mind you, I do agree with you on something, would the Tories put the money back into the infrastructure of this run down country?  I doubt it

[Pete Brooksbank]

Yeah, I agree our contributions were probably too high and our failure to negotiate them down certainly gave ammunition to certain toxic individuals who hate the EU for ideological, not budgetary, reasons. But on a practical level, a no deal Brexit would crash the economy such that any savings made by no longer paying into the budget would look inconsequential.

[Dipdodah]

Yeah, I agree our contributions were probably too high and our failure to negotiate them down certainly gave ammunition to certain toxic individuals who hate the EU for ideological, not budgetary, reasons. But on a practical level, a no deal Brexit would crash the economy such that any savings made by no longer paying into the budget would look inconsequential.

We will agree to disagree Pete.  Ever thought about going into politics   and sort this bloody mess out.

[Ed Kandii]

The White Paper confirms that Remain won the referendum.
It was always an in/in referendum, if our out vote was worth anything they would never have given it to us in the first place.

This Chequers deal has been cobbled together by May, in association with the CBI, and the EU quisling Robbins.  Its bad enough as it stands but when the EU have finished with it, assuming they don't automatically bin it off, it will be far worse.  This country is being set up to become an EU colony; free movement has been re-branded as enhanced mobility, the supposed veto on changes to EU regulations and law is an illusion, and the Common Rule Book is the EU's rule book. We will be a vassal state to the EU with something akin to the associative agreement that Morocco has.


The Referendum and May's 'Brexit means Brexit' crap has been an elaborate charade from start to finish, Brexit in name only is what she's been working towards all along.

If this goes through democracy will have been overturned in this country in an effort to keep big businesses, their shareholders, and the EU happy.

May, Robbins, Cameron, & Osbourne should all be rounded up and f****d off into the Tower where they belong 

[Pete Brooksbank]

Ed, May's Brexit white paper crosses several EU red lines and will be binned off by Brussels, don't you worry about that.

So while 'no deal' is dead politically, there is a real chance we may somehow stumble into it anyway. You may yet get the hard brexit you crave, but it will come at the cost of hundreds of thousands of jobs reliant on JIT supply chains. It's a shame you don't seem to care about the workers who will be cast off into permanent poverty as a result. Is it really a price worth paying?

Actually, you don't need to answer that. You clearly do think it's a price worth paying, or you wouldn't still be calling those seeking to preserve business interests as traitors. Millions of people think the same. So in some ways, I'm starting to come around to Janan Ganesh thoughts, who said "Brexit is an idea whose only effective rebuttal is its own implementation." Much like prohibition, perhaps we need to actually suffer a hard Brexit for you to finally comprehend why it's such a terrible, terrible idea.

[Dipdodah]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6765666/footage-of-jean-claude-juncker-staggering-around-nato-summit-sparks-claims-eu-president-was-drunk-on-the-job/

Says it all