Author Topic: O/T In or out  (Read 398339 times)

Dipdodah

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Re: O/T In or out
« Reply #525 on: March 29, 2017, 03:09:22 PM »
Letter handed in, no going back.
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Pete Brooksbank

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Re: O/T In or out
« Reply #526 on: March 29, 2017, 07:43:25 PM »
Letter handed in, no going back.

A leaked memo from the EU suggests they will offer us reversible notification; highly unlikely, of course, but a remote possibility should the negotiations go so badly public opinion turns against Brexit. More likely an EU ploy to try and undermine May's negotiating hand. Quite clever really.

Dipdodah

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Re: O/T In or out
« Reply #527 on: April 02, 2017, 10:02:13 AM »
Spain being a bit naughty over Gibraltar.  I can see why the locals voted to remain.  Just a point we had to some extent open borders, but not it seems the border with Gib.

I went there some years back and was delayed several hours in queues.

Can you imagine if Britain did that from people returning from Ireland.

Could be a sign of things to come if Scotland leave the union?
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Adam

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Re: O/T In or out
« Reply #528 on: April 04, 2017, 07:44:58 PM »
Also, we're probably going to need to make some cuts. I damn well hope they start with the state pension.

I've been meaning for a while to apologise for this remark. I do have two bugbears - one with the fairness of a young generation being voted out of the EU by an older one which is not going to see the consequences, and a second with the government's continuing generosity in funding the 'triple lock' on the state pension which I think is both unsustainable and a poor use of public money. But  to link them in that way was clearly in pretty poor taste. Apologies to those that I offended (and who still have the will to read this thread).

I suppose my only defence is that it was at the height of post referendum national insanity. Nine months later, we have members of the House of Lords talking about war with Spain. So I guess I don't have a monopoly on ill advised comments...

green hats mate

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Re: O/T In or out
« Reply #529 on: April 04, 2017, 08:02:17 PM »
Also, we're probably going to need to make some cuts. I damn well hope they start with the state pension.

I've been meaning for a while to apologise for this remark. I do have two bugbears - one with the fairness of a young generation being voted out of the EU by an older one which is not going to see the consequences, and a second with the government's continuing generosity in funding the 'triple lock' on the state pension which I think is both unsustainable and a poor use of public money. But  to link them in that way was clearly in pretty poor taste. Apologies to those that I offended (and who still have the will to read this thread).

I suppose my only defence is that it was at the height of post referendum national insanity. Nine months later, we have members of the House of Lords talking about war with Spain. So I guess I don't have a monopoly on ill advised comments...

As a pensioner your comments do not offend me Adam,   from your remark it was clear to me you had stepped into a zone you have very little understanding of .   How would you reform pensions ?

oxo

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Re: O/T In or out
« Reply #530 on: April 04, 2017, 09:32:40 PM »
Also, we're probably going to need to make some cuts. I damn well hope they start with the state pension.

I've been meaning for a while to apologise for this remark. I do have two bugbears - one with the fairness of a young generation being voted out of the EU by an older one which is not going to see the consequences, and a second with the government's continuing generosity in funding the 'triple lock' on the state pension which I think is both unsustainable and a poor use of public money. But  to link them in that way was clearly in pretty poor taste. Apologies to those that I offended (and who still have the will to read this thread).

I suppose my only defence is that it was at the height of post referendum national insanity. Nine months later, we have members of the House of Lords talking about war with Spain. So I guess I don't have a monopoly on ill advised comments...

As a pensioner your comments do not offend me Adam,   from your remark it was clear to me you had stepped into a zone you have very little understanding of .   How would you reform pensions ?


Well Adam it's been a long time coming but your apology is welcome and yes I was very offended. Good luck for the future young man.

Adam

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Re: O/T In or out
« Reply #531 on: April 04, 2017, 11:02:42 PM »
Also, we're probably going to need to make some cuts. I damn well hope they start with the state pension.

I've been meaning for a while to apologise for this remark. I do have two bugbears - one with the fairness of a young generation being voted out of the EU by an older one which is not going to see the consequences, and a second with the government's continuing generosity in funding the 'triple lock' on the state pension which I think is both unsustainable and a poor use of public money. But  to link them in that way was clearly in pretty poor taste. Apologies to those that I offended (and who still have the will to read this thread).

I suppose my only defence is that it was at the height of post referendum national insanity. Nine months later, we have members of the House of Lords talking about war with Spain. So I guess I don't have a monopoly on ill advised comments...

As a pensioner your comments do not offend me Adam,   from your remark it was clear to me you had stepped into a zone you have very little understanding of .   How would you reform pensions ?

I've no strong views on if they need reform as such, but I think the (state) pension has blatantly been used by the Conservatives as a bung to buy votes. The tripe lock costs £6bn a year if you believe the government's actuaries. I'm pretty sure that money would do greater good for both the country and older generation if it was used to fund social care or the NHS (even though I'm sure the latter will soon be awash with £350m a week of extra cash).

Dipdodah

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Re: O/T In or out
« Reply #532 on: April 05, 2017, 09:21:21 AM »
The younger generation seem to think that the government GIFT a pension to over 65's.

The state pension is a RIGHT paid for by the pensioners during their working lives.

I speak from experience, when I say in my early married life I struggled to keep the wolves at bay.

I worked all the overtime I could and even had a second job.  My contribution towards my state pension at the time could have been better spent else where.  So in effect, my family and I went without to receive a meagre state pension.
The older I get, the earlier it gets late

Ferret

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Re: O/T In or out
« Reply #533 on: April 05, 2017, 09:46:00 AM »
If it hadn't been for the actions of the older generation about 70 years ago, you might not have even had the chance to vote on whether to be part of a united Europe or not......

howmanynames2pick

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Re: O/T In or out
« Reply #534 on: April 05, 2017, 10:21:15 AM »
If it hadn't been for the actions of the older generation about 70 years ago, you might not have even had the chance to vote on whether to be part of a united Europe or not......
exactly Pat............
the "You have taken away our future" line gets up my nose...maybe , just maybe we've saved it
as one who opted in all those years ago and have seen both sides of the story maybe we are better able to judge what is right or wrong???
we were never told about European Commissions...Court of Human Rights...European Parliaments...What might they(whoever "they" are) have planned for YOU next??
who will bail out Spain, Ireland, Italy who are technically bankrupt??
remember NO government has any money..it only raises money by Tax..that is you and i...
forget the figures about NHS being saved etc, the fact is we give Brussels ££ and they give some of it back BUT say where it is spent.
remember this figure is less than we give them
It saddens me that Remainers just bring it down to being racist and/or thick.
My  biggest regret is that the vote wasn't wider(either way) and the previous government had put things in place or at least thought about the consequences of a Leave win
anyway i'll nip to the antique shop and buy a tin hat and wait for replies from more educated erudite posters

Pete Brooksbank

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Re: O/T In or out
« Reply #535 on: April 05, 2017, 12:26:54 PM »
If it hadn't been for the actions of the older generation about 70 years ago, you might not have even had the chance to vote on whether to be part of a united Europe or not......
exactly Pat............
the "You have taken away our future" line gets up my nose...maybe , just maybe we've saved it
as one who opted in all those years ago and have seen both sides of the story maybe we are better able to judge what is right or wrong???
we were never told about European Commissions...Court of Human Rights...European Parliaments...What might they(whoever "they" are) have planned for YOU next??
who will bail out Spain, Ireland, Italy who are technically bankrupt??
remember NO government has any money..it only raises money by Tax..that is you and i...
forget the figures about NHS being saved etc, the fact is we give Brussels ££ and they give some of it back BUT say where it is spent.
remember this figure is less than we give them
It saddens me that Remainers just bring it down to being racist and/or thick.
My  biggest regret is that the vote wasn't wider(either way) and the previous government had put things in place or at least thought about the consequences of a Leave win
anyway i'll nip to the antique shop and buy a tin hat and wait for replies from more educated erudite posters

No tin hat needed from my perspective, it is a good point you make about seeing the UK pre and post-EU. I've only ever lived in a UK that is part of the union.

The only thing I'd really take issue with is that we are (well, not for much longer) a partner in all the institutions you allude to. People are very quick to roll out the 'Brussels tells us what to do' argument, but we ARE (or were) Brussels. Nothing is imposed on us; we are/were a key part of the decision making process. We won numerous concessions and rights-of-veto on stuff we didn't like, and yet people still blathered on as though we were basically being run by Germany! And you do the same, asking what "they" have planned for "us". It was never a question us v them. Now, thanks to Brexit, it is. And since they're over four times bigger than us, I can't see this having a happy ending.

Adam

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Re: O/T In or out
« Reply #536 on: April 05, 2017, 01:17:11 PM »
Most of the stuff the EU legislates on (that we don't opt out of) is incredibly boring stuff about product standards and regulations. I can't believe anyone who realises how dry and technocratic this work is could seriously care about whether it is done in Brussels or Whitehall. Nationally important decisions on government spending, health care, education, defence and much more are all still taken in Westminster. Tim Martin's interview on the Today programme was a case in point - asked to name an EU regulation he'd like to scrap, he couldn't, and eventually bemoaned a rise in alcohol duty. Which is set by Philip Hammond...

For my money, the one material area where control is 'taken' from us is migration policy. But once that is set by our own government, there is going to to be a very awkward moment when politicians have to explain that, actually, the economy needs high levels of immigration to keep our economy running, hospitals staffed, vegetables picked and packed etc. For years they've put off that conversation by blaming the EU, but that card won't be available much longer.

I'm beginning to feel moderately optimistic about Brexit, in the sense that we will either negotiate a reasonable trade 'deal' or (probably more likely) the wheels will fall off completely, the current government will dissolve and we end up reconsidering the whole thing...

Pete Brooksbank

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Re: O/T In or out
« Reply #537 on: April 05, 2017, 01:57:04 PM »
I'm beginning to feel moderately optimistic about Brexit, in the sense that we will either negotiate a reasonable trade 'deal' or (probably more likely) the wheels will fall off completely, the current government will dissolve and we end up reconsidering the whole thing...

I feel the same, actually. As counter-intuitive as it may appear, the fact A50 has now been sent means we can actually start dealing with reality. And if Brexit does turn out to be a good thing, or the EU implodes in the next few years, I will hold my hand up and admit I was wrong.

I can't see it happening, however, and as the news gets ever gloomier about the deal (or no deal) we will ACTUALLY end up with, the more likely it is that big compromises are made that effectively satisfy those of us on the remain side. That won't happen easily, of course. Hard brexiters hate normal, working people, including everyone on this board, and 99% of people who live and work in towns like Boston - they absolutely loathe you/me/us, and now, emboldened by their success at the polls and labour's pathetic weakness, it's likely they're going to overreach themselves in their desire to wreak ideological havoc on the very people they lied to in the campaign. They are determined to uncouple from Europe so they can get on with the job of taking your pensions, your holidays, your rights at work, holidays, maternity pay - you name it. And if you don't believe me, perhaps check out Liam Fox's thoughts on the deregulation of the labour market and tell me you're fine with it.

They will get found out, in time. Brexit will flush them out, and when their true intentions are clear, I do not doubt the public will turn on them. I feel like this is a fight we had to have at some point, but there's no doubt 'we' (including Brexiters) will stop them stripping society of the progressive gains made in the post-war era. The tragedy of Brexit is it even allowed them a chance.

Pete Brooksbank

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Re: O/T In or out
« Reply #538 on: April 05, 2017, 01:59:21 PM »
I'm beginning to feel moderately optimistic about Brexit, in the sense that we will either negotiate a reasonable trade 'deal' or (probably more likely) the wheels will fall off completely, the current government will dissolve and we end up reconsidering the whole thing...

I feel the same, actually. As counter-intuitive as it may appear, the fact A50 has now been sent means we can actually start dealing with reality. And if Brexit does turn out to be a good thing, or the EU implodes in the next few years, I will hold my hand up and admit I was wrong.

I can't see it happening, however, and as the news gets ever gloomier about the deal (or no deal) we will ACTUALLY end up with, the more likely it is that big compromises are made that effectively satisfy those of us on the remain side. That won't happen easily, of course. Hard brexiters hate normal, working people, including everyone on this board, and 99% of people who live and work in towns like Boston - they absolutely loathe you/me/us, and now, emboldened by their success at the polls and labour's pathetic weakness, it's likely they're going to overreach themselves in their desire to wreak ideological havoc on the very people they lied to in the campaign. They are determined to uncouple from Europe so they can get on with the job of taking your pensions, your holidays, your rights at work, holidays, maternity pay - you name it. And if you don't believe me, perhaps check out Liam Fox's thoughts on the deregulation of the labour market and tell me you're fine with it.

They will get found out, in time. Brexit will flush them out, and when their true intentions are clear, I do not doubt the public will turn on them. I feel like this is a fight we had to have at some point, but there's no doubt 'we' (including soft Brexiters, whose own objections about the EU were not based on a pathological hatred of the protections of normal working people enshrined in laws they could not change) will stop them stripping society of the progressive gains made in the post-war era. The tragedy of Brexit is it even allowed them a chance.

green hats mate

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Re: O/T In or out
« Reply #539 on: April 05, 2017, 02:45:07 PM »
The younger generation seem to think that the government GIFT a pension to over 65's.

The state pension is a RIGHT paid for by the pensioners during their working lives.

I speak from experience, when I say in my early married life I struggled to keep the wolves at bay.

I worked all the overtime I could and even had a second job.  My contribution towards my state pension at the time could have been better spent else where.  So in effect, my family and I went without to receive a meagre state pension.

Typical of many of our time Mick .     Galling for many that saved cash to supplement a poor pension now find the rate of return on the savings are rock bottom ,    feeding the younger over spenders with cheap credit to fuel the ever increasing debt the country is getting into .
« Last Edit: April 05, 2017, 02:48:32 PM by green hats mate »