Author Topic: FFS, but you cannot blame the lad.  (Read 74505 times)

feelinblue

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Re: FFS, but you cannot blame the lad.
« Reply #105 on: January 20, 2013, 09:22:51 PM »
Sounds as though  Mark was astute and hired Bradley Barracloughs agent .

Mark did what the majority of footballers do and went for the best deal...don't be bitter.

You would our love a chairman like ours.

UTB!!!!
Not bitter delighted Mark has secured a great deal .
Asked on another thread what gates you require to maintain your club at BSN / BSP levels when PS leaves .
You and other blues fans have read the post and not responded .
 I take you have realised you cannot be sustainable without him.

GHM I don't think the gates are relevant in our case, as the 3-400 have always been there, long before Mr Swann bought the Club. We have always held our own (competed) in the Conference North and certainly in the NPL since joining in 1968.
What is more worrying is Sponsorship and where that is coming from??
The fact is, PS is paying from his own pocket to make up the shortfall in sponsors cash. That is why (in his opinion) he needed to build a new stadium to attract such new sponsorship opportunities. As most intelligent people know, Lincolnshire is hardly a football hotbed, and most business people in the county are struggling right now.
Trinity are very lucky to have him on board.

kingofnaves

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Re: FFS, but you cannot blame the lad.
« Reply #106 on: January 20, 2013, 09:30:01 PM »
Just hope Wilkinsons dont follow Hmv, JJB and the rest!

trinityblue11

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Re: FFS, but you cannot blame the lad.
« Reply #107 on: January 20, 2013, 09:42:38 PM »
Just hope Wilkinsons dont follow Hmv, JJB and the rest!

Stop clutching at straws.

green hats mate

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Re: FFS, but you cannot blame the lad.
« Reply #108 on: January 20, 2013, 09:43:04 PM »
Sounds as though  Mark was astute and hired Bradley Barracloughs agent .

Mark did what the majority of footballers do and went for the best deal...don't be bitter.

You would our love a chairman like ours.

UTB!!!!
Not bitter delighted Mark has secured a great deal .
Asked on another thread what gates you require to maintain your club at BSN / BSP levels when PS leaves .
You and other blues fans have read the post and not responded .
 I take you have realised you cannot be sustainable without him.

My answer to that is..I honestly don't know...maybe we live by the sword and one day we will fall on the sword..but I don't think and hope Peter will desert the blues..but I will tell you one thing I personally would sacrifice a wembley appearance for promotion to the BSP and I think we can go one better than last season..I don't speak for all blues fans,only my opinion.

Well done feelinblue , unlike your other guys you have the balls to come on and admit you not got no idea .
Recall reading PS inherited debt when he took over club , therefore if he leaves and you revert to a small budget you will not be sustainable on 400 gates .

truffleshuffle

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Re: FFS, but you cannot blame the lad.
« Reply #109 on: January 20, 2013, 10:30:57 PM »
Sounds as though  Mark was astute and hired Bradley Barracloughs agent .

Mark did what the majority of footballers do and went for the best deal...don't be bitter.

You would our love a chairman like ours.

UTB!!!!
Not bitter delighted Mark has secured a great deal .
Asked on another thread what gates you require to maintain your club at BSN / BSP levels when PS leaves .
You and other blues fans have read the post and not responded .
 I take you have realised you cannot be sustainable without him.

My answer to that is..I honestly don't know...maybe we live by the sword and one day we will fall on the sword..but I don't think and hope Peter will desert the blues..but I will tell you one thing I personally would sacrifice a wembley appearance for promotion to the BSP and I think we can go one better than last season..I don't speak for all blues fans,only my opinion.

Unless he gets his grubby little mits on your ground soon I fear he will walk away. (not to dissimilar to Robwell & Sotnick)

Its down to your blues club whether to buy in the pipe dream for 15 mins of fame followed by 15 yrs of pain.

Enjoy the "good times" while they last.  :dan

trinityblue11

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Re: FFS, but you cannot blame the lad.
« Reply #110 on: January 21, 2013, 07:40:36 AM »
Sounds as though  Mark was astute and hired Bradley Barracloughs agent .

Mark did what the majority of footballers do and went for the best deal...don't be bitter.

You would our love a chairman like ours.

UTB!!!!
Not bitter delighted Mark has secured a great deal .
Asked on another thread what gates you require to maintain your club at BSN / BSP levels when PS leaves .
You and other blues fans have read the post and not responded .
 I take you have realised you cannot be sustainable without him.

My answer to that is..I honestly don't know...maybe we live by the sword and one day we will fall on the sword..but I don't think and hope Peter will desert the blues..but I will tell you one thing I personally would sacrifice a wembley appearance for promotion to the BSP and I think we can go one better than last season..I don't speak for all blues fans,only my opinion.

Unless he gets his grubby little mits on your ground soon I fear he will walk away. (not to dissimilar to Robwell & Sotnick)

Its down to your blues club whether to buy in the pipe dream for 15 mins of fame followed by 15 yrs of pain.

Enjoy the "good times" while they last.  :dan

We will and do..thanks for that.

Maxross

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Re: FFS, but you cannot blame the lad.
« Reply #111 on: January 21, 2013, 10:43:26 AM »
Sustainabilty is the key word for me, and on the crowds Gainsborough are getting the playing budget is clearly not sustanable.  Alarm bells should be ringing if the Chairman is having to subsidise the club to such a high level.  Everyone remembers Max Griggs putting in huge investment at Rushden & Diamonds.  He built them a new ground and I recall he also built additional facilities like a conference centre in order to bring in extra income.  The club in fairness had a decent fanbase and a decent population within their catchment area and if I'm correct were averaging crowds of around 2,500.  As I recall Griggs left them with the ground and debt free, and where are they now? Any chairman (or fan for that matter) should see their demise as a warning of the madness of bank rolling promotion and the flaws of this model. 

To my mind you have to build your club from the ground up, like a business, and only ever pay a sensible percentage of your income after taking account of your costs.  Pretty simple stuff really, but all too rare in football these days from the premiership right down to the lower levels of Non League.  Its a lazy way to run a club, to just throw money at it and hope for the best and often leads to problems down the line.  It should follow that if you want to increase your budget and thus chances of success you should be trying to build your club first by increasing attendences, selling more merchandise etc.  Some will say you can achieve this by winning games, I agree to an extent, the product must be good.  However you will only end up with the fair weather fans, who will desert you as soon as the money and results inevitably dry up.  To me you try to build your fanbase by engaging with community over time via initiatives and kids tickets in schools, family offers etc.  Thats what got me interested when I was young.  Its a much slower burner I admit, but ultimately you will have a stronger fanbase that have a real emotional bond with the club.  As your fan base increases you can justifiably increase your budget and the key thing, it is sustainable.

My main concerns for Gainsborough, as many of their fans have already informed us, they have a catchment area of approx 20,000 as opposed to Boston's 65,000.  Clearly it is going to be more difficult for them to attract the crowds required for a sustainable push.  Their fans tell us their attendence to population figures compare favourably to other clubs.  That would suggest to me that they are unlikely to attract many more fans.  Put simply, the catchment area is just too small to support the level of football they aspire to.  When we then hear rumours they are paying figures like £500 per week for Jones you have to think they are living well beyond their means.  The fact that Jones has been given a two year contract is also concerning as they are now presumably locked into paying this salary until June 2014.  With the Chairman saying publicly he plans to stand down at the end of the season and reduce funding, it seems strange then to lock the club into paying high wages in the future.  You dont have to be a genius to work out they are being subsidised to a considerable level.  Mr Swann may be able to sustain this for a few seasons, but how long can this realistacally continue?  If he is a businessman surely he will soon be looking for some return on his investment.  You Gainsborough fans can keep burying your heads in the sand, but we've heard it all before here and we very nearly lost our club.  And before you say Peter Swann is differnet, he loves the club etc etc, the Malkinson family owned this club for decades.  But it hasn't stopped them upping our rent massively and refusing to extend our lease.

Tash

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Re: FFS, but you cannot blame the lad.
« Reply #112 on: January 21, 2013, 11:16:16 AM »
The above post IMO is the best post this season, absolutely spot on Maxross.
IWJLTSTSPFKARIADASICR

Shauneyg

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Re: FFS, but you cannot blame the lad.
« Reply #113 on: January 21, 2013, 11:18:19 AM »
Agree totally!!!

Tash

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Re: FFS, but you cannot blame the lad.
« Reply #114 on: January 21, 2013, 11:21:26 AM »
In fact I will go further than saying it is the best post this season, it should be sent to every football club in the country and pinned up in the Boardrooms.
IWJLTSTSPFKARIADASICR

Maxross

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Re: FFS, but you cannot blame the lad.
« Reply #115 on: January 21, 2013, 11:47:50 AM »
The above post IMO is the best post this season, absolutely spot on Maxross.

Thanks very much Tash & Shauney, glad somebody agrees!  I love football but I worry for the future, even with all the money in the Premiership, clubs are living beyond their means and running high debt levels. At some point I think the bubble is going to busrt, I'm just glad we have someone in David Newton who is running the club sensibly. 

Ugo Ehigu made an interesting comment in this article: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20274388 that young players are getting paid too much, potentially meaning they are not prepared to join clubs lower down the pyramid on lower wages.

Until the last few years, Lower League and Non League provided a sanctuary from the madness of the premiership, however it seems to be now following suit.  I am hoping that at some stage sanity will prevail and we will return to Non League clubs being run sustainably.

Shauneyg

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Re: FFS, but you cannot blame the lad.
« Reply #116 on: January 21, 2013, 12:29:51 PM »
I agree and I'm so glad newton and co are running the club properly and the club is slowly but surely gettin sorted. It may take a little longer than the moaners would like but our club will get to where we want to be by being well run and sustainable. I hope we have some positive news on the new ground soon. we should all get behind the directors, management and players by doing that  together we can achieve success.

feelinblue

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Re: FFS, but you cannot blame the lad.
« Reply #117 on: January 21, 2013, 12:31:46 PM »
Excellent posts Maxross.
Non league does appear to be heading in the same direction as the pro clubs...agree.

Some points I would like to add though. Have the Conference/feeder leagues made it far more difficult for clubs to climb leagues, by insisting on so many ground grading rules?
For example, clubs like Trinity having to upgrade a Main stand to 500 seats when the whole ground very rarely gets this attendance. Seperate turnstiles, dug outs for 12, etc etc.
I understand Brackley are likely to fail in a bid for promotion due to their ground, and maybe struggling to stay in BSN.

Do the Conference rulers need to regionalise more? Gloucester/Worcester/Bishops....North....don't think so.
How about a "Cap" on payments to players, thus creating a level playing field, then let the clubs with the biggest attendance use that revenue to upgrade facilities and be more competitive in transfers.

For all PS and all other Chairmen's cash, I personally don't think the playing standards have improved over the last few years, and would say that the BSN is no better than the old NPL.

For all of PS "investment" over the last 4-5 years, the team IMO, play no better than Ernie Moss's side in the late 90's and have no better players than Ernie brought to the club and sustained a good level of football on 3-400 gates.
Football management is a lot, lot more that how much money you have to splash. ;)

Shauneyg

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Re: FFS, but you cannot blame the lad.
« Reply #118 on: January 21, 2013, 12:55:08 PM »
Looking at the teams battling relegation from BSP alot of them are teams from the north so I would say teams like stortford,Gloucester and Oxford would be moved to BSS?

Maxross

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Re: FFS, but you cannot blame the lad.
« Reply #119 on: January 21, 2013, 01:47:03 PM »
Thank you Feelinblue.

I agree with you to some extent, it can seem unfair for smaller clubs to have to make large scale investments in their grounds to gain promotion.  Indeed, it is said investment in York St during the the earliy eighties led to a decline in Bostons playing budget and subsequently league placing.  We have famously missed out on promotions thanks to ground grading issues in the past.

However, if Gainsborough were promoted to the Conference National you would be hosting well supported ex league clubs such as Luton, Lincoln, Wrexham etc, who I would imagine would bring a lot of travelling supporters.  Lincoln for example filled the Town End when they visited York St.  In games like these the ability of the stadium to host large numbers of fans safely is paramount.  I must admit some of the rules do seem ridiculous.  I believe we had to upgrade things like the dugouts and weren't our floodlight at one point deemed not quite bright enough on the centre of the pitch?  Clearly certain standards  are required though as clubs rise through the leagues.

I remember your side being very competetive in the 90's and some cracking games between us.  Players like Simon Grayson and Phil Brown played for both clubs as I recall. Back then the clubs in this division were run much more sensibly and you were really able to gauge the abilty of managers to build their teams on low budgets.  I remember Marine being all conquering on roughly 500 gates, but they also fell foul of the Conference ground grading rules.  Todays managers are operating in a different environment and its hard to judge if a manager is talented, or just succeeding thanks to the money available.

I do agree that despite your investment, the quality has not improved much, Mr Swann has seen relatively poor value for his investment.  A lot of this goes back to the inflated wages filtering through from the top level.  To me though he should be trying to attract quality players who want to play for the club, not the money.  Only one thing will truly motivate players recruited on that basis, and if the money goes, so will they.  If I were him I'd be concentrating more on building the infrastructure and fanbase of the club.  I would pay a modest playing budget the club could afford, and if I wished to invest further I'd invest in building a club fit for Conference National or higher Conference North.  Investments that would increase the clubs fanbase and income generating potential.  The old saying goes "If you build it, they will come" and I believe that. 

A cap seems draconian although it could be effective.  I know some unscrupulous chairman plan to get around the new fair play rules, which use percentage of income to define budget, by organising fictious inflated sponsorship deals.  A cap would stop that but I'm not sure its the answer.  I think transparency of clubs acounts, detailing playing budget, gate reciepts, outgoings etc would be one way of doing it.  If the acounts and playing budget for every club were easily available for all to see in a standard league format, it would create an insentive for chairman to run their clubs responsibly.  They could be released en bloc by the league in a format easily digestable by the average fan and contain stats, league tables etc.  It would allow an easy comparison between clubs and highlight the badly run ones.  It would also allow clubs to manage the expectations of their fans and would allow us fans to gauge the abilty of our managers against others.

Re: The North/South Regionalisation debate
Regionalisation will always throw up these problems as at some point a national league has to be distributed into regions.  Unfortunately the clubs invloved in relegation aren't nice enough to organise themselves evenly into North and South and hence the problems begin! 

« Last Edit: January 21, 2013, 01:51:10 PM by Maxross »