Pilgrims' Patter
The Forum => The B-Ark => Topic started by: Target Sport on January 27, 2010, 09:48:39 AM
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Morning folks
We've ramped up our coverage of the club in the Target. This week, we've got an interview with David Newton about his relocation plans
For a taster of the interview http://tinyurl.com/ykf5etd
To read the whole lot, see this week's Target.
For a video from the Durham game http://tinyurl.com/ykw4rkp
And follow United on twitter at twitter.com/bostonsport
Cheers
Mark
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Reading this today gives probely the biggest indication of what to expect,
A smaller ground to fit more within the attendance with ground been no where near the size of what we have.
On the the plus side it will be bufc ground.
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As long as there is scope to grow if needs be ;)
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start with two stands, then build up from there?
or is that just too tinpot?
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Sounds like it..... :-\
A bit like Northwich, with nothing at either end and just a big terrace and a main stand.
Would finance ever be in place to do anything with both ends? Or even 1?
All the atmosphere of a morgue.
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Na i think it be 4 sides but just a lot smaller.
I think probely summit like seating for around 600 down one side, 2 small end terrace holding about 500 each.And summit similer to spain road down the other, i certainly wouldnt waist money on a stand similer to the town end for 200 ish fans to stand in.
Would still give a capacity of around 3000 ish
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3000 capacity would be way too small. It would be more than realistic if things went well on and off the pitch in the next 5 plus years for us to be in league or pushing to be in the league again and I can recall numerous matches where the attendance was well over 3000. Even against Durham on Saturday with 1300 inside with the exception of the York Street stand the ground still looked intimidating to the opposition even though it was only 1/5 full
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If say we did get into the league again isnt there a minimum capacity needed of something like 4,000 ?
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Going up and attracting them sort of gates will be in there minds and im sure were ever it is they will be allowing room for extra constrution if needed, i think at the moment its a case of getting a ground with 4 side that aint gonna cost the earth.
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Interesting development..
I have no access to the article . . maybe Mr Newton could restate the main points on the O/S .. but I can't see enough money being found within the Club to fund a F / League standard stadium .. some outside interest is needed .
Maybe the Malks could be persuaded to build one side of the ground .. with an entertainment complex behind .
And take a minority interest..?
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Pity Mr Newton couldn't give the story to both papers in the town, seeing as not everyone gets the Target
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There's a taster of the interview at the following link chaps - http://tinyurl.com/yfsx9rh
Cheers
Mark
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If say we did get into the league again isnt there a minimum capacity needed of something like 4,000 ?
Minimum of 4000 to get (or stay) in the Conference National with a minimum of 500 seats. If promoted to FL the club would also need to have the ability to go up to 5000 capacity with 1000 seated (I think this has to be achieved within a year). The seating has to rise to 2000 after 3 years, this is why we have the green seats in the YS end as we needed these to make the 2000 seat requirement.
So most of the suggestions on here are non starters if DN gets his wish and we are Conf Nat on 5 years. In addition the 2 ends must be terraced unless the capacity is met within the rest of the ground, so no open flat standing behind the goals unless we can meet this criteria.
This is going to sound ungrateful as DN has worked miracles so far but if this isn't done right from the get go we'll end up an average Unibond(Conf North at best) side if we go for a Nantwich style ground. Personally don't think we should go with what we have now but on a smaller scale as suggested by B-shire as this would make it much harder to go bigger which would be needed to go higher, and also much costlier replacing small terraces/stands with bigger versions which is effectively paying twice.
I would say build a small 500 seater covering half the length of the pitch with a terrace down the other side of 2000 and 1500 behind a goal to get us the 4000 needed if we are in Conf Nat(obviously this can be scaled down to whatever league we're in requirements*) when it does go ahead.
If and when we ever get to FL then build the other half of the seated stand down the side and put a temp stand on the other end to get the other 500 needed for capacity, this then gives 2 years to finance a further 1000 seater stand behind the goal to replace the temp stand.
* A grade (conf Nat) 4000 capacity - 500 seats. If ends are to be included in capacity they must be terraced
* B grade (conf North/South) 3000 capacity - 500 covered of which 250 seats. Ends can be flat (non terraced). Need to upgrade to 500 seats to be eligble for promotion.
* C grade (Unibond/Zameretto/Ryman) 1950 capacity - 500 covered of wich 250 seats. Ends can be flat (non terraced).
FA ground grading (http://www.thefa.com/Leagues/NationalLeagueSystem/GroundGrading.aspx)
Failing all this and mine (and I would guess most others) preference would be to acquire York Street. I know DN has said this is a non-starter but surely it wouldn't work out any more expensive and if development is needed to increase revenue surely the YS stand can be replaced. I know this would use some of our already limited car park but everything suggested just seems to be re-inventing the wheel as we have a FL standard ground already.
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I finding it funny in many ways that some people still have a preference of york street when.
1, you would be looking at 6m plus to do this.
Now the extra,s
Not much in the way off facilties to attract vip members, such as boxes etc and to do this id guess we would be looking at nearly adding mil on top, althou to do this would meen the perimiters need moving(land we havnt got and is not even availible at york street).
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Thing is BS that to build a ground of Unibond standard like Nantwich is £4 mil. They have a 350 seater stand and a very small terrace opposite with the rest being open, which is most fo the ground. To build a conf standard you're looking in excess of £6 mil and for a FL ground I would hazzard a guess at £10 mil +
And who the hell would watch non-league/lower end FL football from a box?
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Agree Bostonshire. not affordable or practicable
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I would have the same to say about boxes but the fact is many bsp clubs have them and sell them,So people do use boxes.
Nantwich ground may have been 4mil but lets not forget the chestnuts have The contacts and a big ability to cut this cost.
York street is a fantastic ground with a lot of history and is a ideal location for some. however staying on york street is not wise financialy or logical.
Due to the ground as it is and the fact there is no area around it, the club would be lucky to substain bsp at york street. And even if we owned the ground we wouldnt be in the possistion to substain any higher football.
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At least we have the owners who know what they are doing this time, and they will undoubtedly get good quality at a low price.
However if the Malkies werent charging a retartedly high rent then we wouldnt have to be rushed into all this so quickly.
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At least we have the owners who know what they are doing this time, and they will undoubtedly get good quality at a low price.
However if the Malkies werent charging a retartedly high rent then we wouldnt have to be rushed into all this so quickly.
Verry true about been rushed althou even without the high rent we would only have till the end of our lease
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At least we have the owners who know what they are doing this time, and they will undoubtedly get good quality at a low price.
However if the Malkies werent charging a retartedly high rent then we wouldnt have to be rushed into all this so quickly.
I believe at the time the rent was set it was stated in either the Standard or Target that this wasn't the figure set by the Malkies but by an arbitrator who set the figure based on a market rent for all the facilities available at the ground
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It's not all about the first team, and the new ground will show that. We are progressing quickly towards being very much a community club with so many things going on at the football club other than the first team playing.
We have 6 Centre of Excellence sides, 10 Community Club sides currently represent BUCFC, including youth, adult and mental health sides, the Under 18's, College students, Girls United, BUFC Cheerleading group, the excellent Football in the Community Programe and full time staff, Onside School Learning, after school clubs, entertain matchday sponsors ......and The Pilgrim Lounge! So you can see it's not just about providing a stadium for the first team to play in, we have to think about all these elements which provide funding for running the football club as a whole.
Rob and Paul have done a great job so far and the Chairman backs them as much as possible, but we are still losing a lot of money each year, possibly £250,000 again this year, so you can see why all these fund raising community elements are very very important.
The future is exciting but without your support and genorosity there may not be a future!
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possibly £250,000
:o that 10K a home game and a 1000 more needed on the gate, that is frightening
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We have 6 Centre of Excellence sides, 10 Community Club sides currently represent BUCFC, including youth, adult and mental health sides, the Under 18's, College students, Girls United, BUFC Cheerleading group, the excellent Football in the Community Programe and full time staff, Onside School Learning, after school clubs, entertain matchday sponsors ......and The Pilgrim Lounge! So you can see it's not just about providing a stadium for the first team to play in, we have to think about all these elements which provide funding for running the football club as a whole.
Rob and Paul have done a great job so far and the Chairman backs them as much as possible, but we are still losing a lot of money each year, possibly £250,000 again this year, so you can see why all these fund raising community elements are very very important.
The future is exciting but without your support and genorosity there may not be a future!
So, even with all these elements providing funding for running the football club as a whole, we are still losing £0.25m per year :o
But aren't these the same elements mentioned in the business plan that, when the time to relocate comes, are going to somehow provide the £7-10m required to build a brand new stadium for the club?
Something doesn't add up ???
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we are still paying stuff off and with the high rent to this is where alot of the loss is occuring i think
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we are still paying stuff off and with the high rent to this is where alot of the loss is occuring i think
Chris's figures are more than interesting. I thought when the club came out the CVA all debts to creditors were paid so I assumed there was a clean slate apart from having to continue paying the rent
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Im not sure but as it at a guess, last year it was 250 k ish. this year many things have gone towards plugging the gap in some way or form. how ever lets not forget that this season has seen a Near 60k back rent. 75k on that phantom loan nobody knew about, add to that intrest and legel cost im affraid to say it dont make pritty reading.
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I do not know the full details, but I would think with the only income of note coming from home gates we would struggle.
What is needed is a facility that can be used 24/7 not just once every two weeks.
I would like to see a ground with 5000 capacity, just in case ::)
I would like to see the stadium used for some other sport as well, so that we can benefit from two incomes.
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Nothing new here .... fairly swift relocation was always high on the list of priorities for current owners. The building of additional infrastructure to provide other revenue streams was even part of the grand schemes of Evans, Sotnick et al.
Initial capacity needs to be limited, (3,000) with the ability to expand if and when needed.
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I really do think its short term thinking to build anything less than a Conference ready ground with a minimum 1000 seats and standing for 3-4000 as a minimum.
If you think small you end up being small. Don't compare us to the likes of Nantwich, we're only in the same league as them because of crooks, the reality is we're a club 5 or 6 times bigger than them.
We're a Conference size club capable of attracting 2000 people through the gates if we get up there and as was proved during our time in the league 6000 on exceptional days.
I remember going to Hednesford on that Monday at the end of our 1st conference season and the ground was uncovered on 2 sides, having been back since its now covered on all 4 sides.......its that kind of facility we should aim for, not something that will stop you getting promotion like Natwich have.
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I really do think its short term thinking to build anything less than a Conference ready ground with a minimum 1000 seats and standing for 3-4000 as a minimum.
If you think small you end up being small. Don't compare us to the likes of Nantwich, we're only in the same league as them because of crooks, the reality is we're a club 5 or 6 times bigger than them.
We're a Conference size club capable of attracting 2000 people through the gates if we get up there and as was proved during our time in the league 6000 on exceptional days.
I remember going to Hednesford on that Monday at the end of our 1st conference season and the ground was uncovered on 2 sides, having been back since its now covered on all 4 sides.......its that kind of facility we should aim for, not something that will stop you getting promotion like Natwich have.
Its all good comming up with expected figures but lets eware ans build as we go, Building to much to fast and having big areas of the ground that wouldnt be used at this moment would be a complete waist of time and money
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its become obvious of late that york street hasnt and couldnt have the facilitys for us to progress financially in place so a new ground has to be custom built for us.there has been allsorts of figures that we as fans have speculated a new ground would cost to build and to be honest i havnt got a clue as what that amount would be.just thinking out loud though what would it cost to buy y/s out right for the club to own it and carry on where we are ???
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its become obvious of late that york street hasnt and couldnt have the facilitys for us to progress financially in place so a new ground has to be custom built for us.there has been allsorts of figures that we as fans have speculated a new ground would cost to build and to be honest i havnt got a clue as what that amount would be.just thinking out loud though what would it cost to buy y/s out right for the club to own it and carry on where we are ???
York streets not going to be sold seperate to the glider, the last figure for the job lot was in the area of 6 mil with no room to develop, so it not a option im affraid to say.Even if you got it for 3 mil it would be costly to the club throu lost revenue on other facilities
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What is needed is something like a greyhound track around the perimeter, possibly a moveable one that could operate within the pitch area and be moved out for football.
This would utilsise the stadium probably twice a week, without any wear and tear on the pitch itself, but mainly use the spectator facilities. This would operate 52 weeks a year generating revenue every week.
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Why would there be a lost of revenue if the club bought Y/S and Glider as a job lot, take over the Bingo, move the Pilgrim Lounge into the Glider, turn the lounge into the club shop, and bring big name bands back to Boston, all profits ploughed back into the club - simples ;D
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Why would there be a lost of revenue if the club bought Y/S and Glider as a job lot, take over the Bingo, move the Pilgrim Lounge into the Glider, turn the lounge into the club shop, and bring big name bands back to Boston, all profits ploughed back into the club - simples ;D
The councel have a big say in the land once the lease is up,There looking at development so lets forget about the york street and get with the program.
Newton has expressed all he can the reason to move. To be cost effective we need to not only have a ground but surrending area for cummunity programs etc and training. Including youth teams and cummunity teams etc.
To reach our target grants as a guess we would need the right facilities. And withou buying esso and mataland and flatening them we havnt got where we are
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Les, a greyhound track cannot be moved. I would love one in Boston but the do gooders would put a stop to that. The last one we had was on the Tesco B&Q site, they tried again but locals objected due to increase in traffic, look how much there is now :o
The old Wembley had one so did Stanford bridge and West ham. Years ago a track went around York Street, and one summer racing was held down Tatt road.
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Les, a greyhound track cannot be moved.
I would have thought that with modern eipment and technology that problem was surmountable. We get drop in cricket pitches and roofed football pitches.
Not sure that it would necessarily be economic,but I am sure it is feasible.
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its become obvious of late that york street hasnt and couldnt have the facilitys for us to progress financially in place so a new ground has to be custom built for us.there has been allsorts of figures that we as fans have speculated a new ground would cost to build and to be honest i havnt got a clue as what that amount would be.just thinking out loud though what would it cost to buy y/s out right for the club to own it and carry on where we are ???
York streets not going to be sold seperate to the glider, the last figure for the job lot was in the area of 6 mil with no room to develop, so it not a option im affraid to say.Even if you got it for 3 mil it would be costly to the club throu lost revenue on other facilities
If £6m is not an option, then £7m+ for a new ground is looking unlikely
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Why would there be a lost of revenue if the club bought Y/S and Glider as a job lot, take over the Bingo, move the Pilgrim Lounge into the Glider, turn the lounge into the club shop, and bring big name bands back to Boston, all profits ploughed back into the club - simples ;D
Bingo is losing money
The last 'big night' out at the Glider was cancelled due to lack of ticket sales
Not much profit :-\
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Why would there be a lost of revenue if the club bought Y/S and Glider as a job lot, take over the Bingo, move the Pilgrim Lounge into the Glider, turn the lounge into the club shop, and bring big name bands back to Boston, all profits ploughed back into the club - simples ;D
Bingo is losing money
The last 'big night' out at the Glider was cancelled due to lack of ticket sales
Not much profit :-\
The reason the 6 is not a option is becouse it would have several mil put on top to tap into the full pottential
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To be where we need to be financial wise we would need to accomadate The FITC.YOUTH.COE cummunity teams with good facilities and pitches instead of renting places,
The new site would have to house a club/shop training centres and to tap in to other sourses of income things like confrence centres to name one.
At york street we have a ground with 1 pitch. a club limited office room and tiny shop. Also lacking apeal to entice buisnesses to use as confrence centre(Comment is not ment as a disrespect to the club).
So 6 mil at york street would soon be added as (subject to planning) Somehow purchases of surrending land would be needed at a cost of a few mil. added to that the legel work/surveys And construction i think you can see that we wouldnt be talking just 6mil.
How ever with current prces and the chestnuts no how id guess a move with facilities needed could be done for 6 or 7 making it the only way forward
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But if BUFC is loosing £250k p/a at present how are they going to fund a move to a new ground without outside investment? And if thats the case would the ground ever be the clubs? Grants won't be that substantial as we're outside the league, no doubt we'll get something off the football foundation but I can't see how a site can be bought and developed without outside help.
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But if BUFC is loosing £250k p/a at present how are they going to fund a move to a new ground without outside investment? And if thats the case would the ground ever be the clubs? Grants won't be that substantial as we're outside the league, no doubt we'll get something off the football foundation but I can't see how a site can be bought and developed without outside help.
Good point.
At a guess investment would have to be made but i think we would be verry supprised at the amount of founded the prodject could attract,
With prodjects such as the mentle health team, wich is seen as getting those that have suffered in the past into social edvents and acceptence into others way of live is open to good grants and ongoing funding,And large amount of funding is availible for other areas. other areas of help would come from donation of time and services wich seems to work well around here.Althou i agree investment would be neede at a guess it would be minimal one all avanues have been drained. As for if the ground would ever be ours i would susspect it could be , but lets face it if it cost half of what york stree cost a year we would be half way there
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A moveable dog racing track???
Even if this would actually generate any significant revenue, which, considering the pretty small crowds that the dogs attract even in a city the size of Nottingham, I sincerely doubt, I would imagine the fact that the stadium would cost £350 million to construct might put Dave off....
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I think we shold stop dreaming and leave it to Chestnuts who will find the best option better than us.
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I think we shold stop dreaming and leave it to Chestnuts who will find the best option better than us.
Agree
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I think we shold stop dreaming and leave it to Chestnuts who will find the best option better than us.
And for the rest of us who dont want to leave it to the Chestnuts we can have our say to the relevant authorities, relocation aint that simple. Wait and see ;)
The Rebel Alliance is still out there, maybe not as vocal but just as effective :o
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I think we shold stop dreaming and leave it to Chestnuts who will find the best option better than us.
And for the rest of us who dont want to leave it to the Chestnuts we can have our say to the relevant authorities, relocation aint that simple. Wait and see ;)
The Rebel Alliance is still out there, maybe not as vocal but just as effective :o
Show the money then, My message to them rebels would be put up or shut up.
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Maybe we shouldn't just leave it to the Chestnuts - get the fans involved as I thought the idea was to hand over the club to the Trust at some stage. If this is still the case it has to be a viable option for the Trust to take on and they ought to be involved from day one - or has the plan changed?
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Is the Trust capable of anything at the moment?
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It's not anti-relocation or anti Chesnuts but the foundations have to be right, lets not regret a hasty asap move when we have time left in our current home.
Stadia relocations take time, Des and Jon attempted and failed! To push the Chestnuts every step of the way will result in a better stadium and set up for Boston United.
A full public consultation should be for starters, a transparent business plan and the planning decision should be referred to a national level.
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The Chestnuts will know EXACTLY what they're doing
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Apparently, Delia has put £11m into Norwich. Does anyone know a friendly TV chef?
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Jon failed with his relocation attempt ! anyone know what business Jon made a succes with ? Don,t know what business you are in Gocompare but from your comments (public consultation , planning decision at NATIONAL level ) it does not fit in with the private sector . Local planning dicisions are only dealt with at national level when the locals planners reject a plan and the party presenting the application appeal to the Ministry Inspector. Well run private firms like Chestnuts do not do "hasty moves" .
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I am out of touch with the local development plan but it will come down to the proposed new location of the ground, I have no doubt objections may be - Noise pollution? Increased traffic on roads? Floodlight pollution? Detrimental impact on privacy and homes? Maybe a change of land use? Obtrusive impact on surrounding area? Worries of anti social behaviour?
It depends on how long the 'ASAP' is?
We will just have to wait and see!
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I am out of touch with the local development plan but it will come down to the proposed new location of the ground, I have no doubt objections may be - Noise pollution? Increased traffic on roads? Floodlight pollution? Detrimental impact on privacy and homes? Maybe a change of land use? Obtrusive impact on surrounding area? Worries of anti social behaviour?
It depends on how long the 'ASAP' is?
We will just have to wait and see!
All those issues would be pertinent if they were going to locate the stadia in a central location,(Lets say York st in the town centre of Boston) the new ground will probably be located out of town well away from resedential areas. As for the traffic problem can it get worse in Boston?
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Or Cuckoo Land!
Out of town stadia requires a good transport network so maybe road widening, roundabouts, traffic lights would be needed? Also many people walk to York Street an out of town stadia would leave many people having to use cars, not good for the enviroment! Central government planning guidelines are not so keen to take away from town centers, currently York Street has educational, community and leisure facilities all this would be lost.
Relocation will take time, but no doubt the Chestnuts will get there in the end.
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Or Cuckoo Land!
Out of town stadia requires a good transport network so maybe road widening, roundabouts, traffic lights would be needed? Also many people walk to York Street an out of town stadia would leave many people having to use cars, not good for the enviroment! Central government planning guidelines are not so keen to take away from town centers, currently York Street has educational, community and leisure facilities all this would be lost.
Relocation will take time, but no doubt the Chestnuts will get there in the end.
Tell me the last football stadium that was built specifly for a club, that was located in a town/city centre?
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Your right Tash , not been one built in towns for years i don,t recall. regards objections to noise ,traffic impact, privacy, pollution etc, etc these are the normal run of the mill stuff. I bet if i submitted a plan for a brick sh*t- house in my back garden someone would lodge the same objections , nothing new to planners dept. Do some people realy think Chestnuts are unawhere of possible pit-falls.? Leave it to the experts !
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Do some people realy think Chestnuts are unawhere of possible pit-falls.? Leave it to the experts !
I think they are very aware that the biggest possible pit-fall is insufficient finance.
They'd have no problem with the planning department, they've been bashing out housing for long enough now.
David Newton says they have nothing concrete yet.... :-\
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I do not think Chestnuts with their experience and knowledge would do a "Lavaflow" and go into a multi-million pound project without a business plan. !
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Do some people realy think Chestnuts are unawhere of possible pit-falls.? Leave it to the experts !
IDavid Newton says they have nothing concrete yet.... :-\
Surely they wont need the concrete till they start building ;D (sorry that was a childish and imature thing for a 55yo to do).
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Do some people realy think Chestnuts are unawhere of possible pit-falls.? Leave it to the experts !
IDavid Newton says they have nothing concrete yet.... :-\
Surely they wont need the concrete till they start building ;D (sorry that was a childish and imature thing for a 55yo to do).
I thought it was good ;D
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of course nothing is set in stone
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Don,t encourage him Bostonshire.
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I do not think Chestnuts with their experience and knowledge would do a "Lavaflow" and go into a multi-million pound project without a business plan. !
They haven't gone into anything yet, apart from keeping BUFC going, and they've done a great job there but the club is still losing money.
The business plan is based on nothing concrete, according to the business plan itself, which is on the main BUFC site.
It looks like its based on hoping that enough organisations will chip in a few quid when the time comes...is that really going to happen?
It would be interesting to know how much money the business plan needs to become viable, and how much cash is available from various grants etc.
A business plan needs costing, if these figure have been calculated then why not attach them to the plan so that we all know where we stand 8)
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Do some people realy think Chestnuts are unawhere of possible pit-falls.? Leave it to the experts !
IDavid Newton says they have nothing concrete yet.... :-\
Surely they wont need the concrete till they start building ;D (sorry that was a childish and imature thing for a 55yo to do).
They've got plenty of concrete stacked up on steel frames around York St :dan
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of course nothing is set in stone
or even bolted down ;)
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Just a quick thing to ask im a little unsure about as it was summit that was mentioned years ago and i dont know wether this was sorted.
Wasnt there a issue with some sort of drain under the york street end that wasnt safe?
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Just a quick thing to ask im a little unsure about as it was summit that was mentioned years ago and i dont know wether this was sorted.
Wasnt there a issue with some sort of drain under the york street end that wasnt safe?
thats why we have gave it to the away fans ;)
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Just a quick thing to ask im a little unsure about as it was summit that was mentioned years ago and i dont know wether this was sorted.
Wasnt there a issue with some sort of drain under the york street end that wasnt safe?
thats why we have gave it to the away fans ;)
Sound choice that. less weight
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In a very complex development like this involving third partys E K no canny business man would make his strategy available . (thats one of the arts of business). I think most people now realise what a complicated and delicate transaction is involved in the proposed move. If you want an example of financial strategy being banded in public you need look no futher than BUFC matchday programme dated 17 April 2006.
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Word on the street is that we do need to relocate ASAP, whether we like it or not :o
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Word on the street is that we do need to relocate ASAP, whether we like it or not :o
Newton wont keep paying 72k a year for the ground, basicly if he cut it out the budget we would be looking at a team meltdown.
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We should have moved before now, sort it out Newton.
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Nearly fell for that one party pooper. No intelligent person could seriously make a comment like that. You're a wind up artist from another club arent you.
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Nah, its just the blame game, I see through this current shower while they blame our landlords who supported the club for many many years.
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Nah, its just the blame game, I see through this current shower while they blame our landlords who supported the club for many many years.
absolute bollocks, is that why theyve put the rent up?
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Looks like Marky boy is back!
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Nah, its just the blame game, I see through this current shower while they blame our landlords who supported the club for many many years.
Falling behind on current affairs again there. The current so could shower as you put it have made it verry clear that dispite the rent increase. they put no blame on the malkies