Pilgrims' Patter

The Forum => The B-Ark => Topic started by: Pete B on January 19, 2021, 12:38:53 PM

Title: Season cancelled?
Post by: Pete B on January 19, 2021, 12:38:53 PM
Reports in The Atheltic today that a majority of clubs in the National League and NLN and NLS are in favour of ending the season now due to the fact the next raft of funding will be in the form of loans rather than grants. This simply isn't what clubs thought they were signing up to when they agreed to start the season in the Autumn.

This will, obviously, be a devastating blow, not least because we really look like being in with a shout of promotion this season! The National League board are meeting today and then having meetings with individual clubs tomorrow. The problem is that it would surely be impossible to end the season on PPG because there is a massive disparity between the number of games clubs have played, so if the season is ended now it would surely have to be voided?

Either way - a disaster.
Title: Re: Season cancelled?
Post by: Bodge on January 19, 2021, 03:51:46 PM
I’m afraid it’s looking more and more likely.

The disparity in the money sloshing around from the top to the lower leagues in the pyramid is mind blowing.
Was reading an article a week or so ago that listed the premiership players that learnt their trade in the conference or lower. It wasn’t just the odd one and other players had been loaned to NL clubs one being a young Liverpool defender who was at Kidderminster last year. I’m afraid I don’t see a change happening.
Title: Re: Season cancelled?
Post by: Lee Newell on January 20, 2021, 07:10:23 PM
Not looking good.  Not continuing looks most likely option. Possibly suspending season with the hope of fans back in spring and play April may June July to finish season?
Title: Re: Season cancelled?
Post by: Pilgrim86 on January 20, 2021, 07:14:07 PM
https://www.bostonunited.co.uk/news/national-league--statement-2595894.html

An update from the National League...

The National League has held meetings with Member Clubs today to discuss further information regarding the Government's Winter Survival Package.

A presentation was given to Member Clubs at today's meetings to assess various options. The National League wishes to place on record its gratitude for the approach of Member Clubs at each meeting.

Interim General Manager of The National League, Mark Ives, has requested each Member Club to provide views on three points:

1. The operation of a Club Loan process.
2. The operation of a National League Loan.
3. A suspension to The National League 2020-2021 season.

The purpose of feedback is to assist the Board in understanding views of all 66 Clubs. The Board will be meeting before the end of the week.
Title: Re: Season cancelled?
Post by: gatley pilgrim on January 21, 2021, 08:47:00 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55751438
Title: Re: Season cancelled?
Post by: Norfolkngood on January 21, 2021, 09:02:35 PM
See Club statement
Title: Re: Season cancelled?
Post by: Poros on January 22, 2021, 08:10:31 AM
Sensible words from David as usual.
Title: Re: Season cancelled?
Post by: Mad Dog on January 22, 2021, 10:12:35 AM
  12 Clubs wanting immediate end to season  https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55751438
Title: Re: Season cancelled?
Post by: Ed Kandii on January 22, 2021, 10:36:33 AM
A four to six week suspension sounds like a reasonable option as not many games will go ahead during that time period anyway. Players and staff furloughed to ease the financial pressure on clubs, and by the time it restarted a large number of our fans should be vaccinated. The jury is still out on the vaccine passport though, as its too early to assess the effect the jab has on transmission.
Title: Re: Season cancelled?
Post by: gatley pilgrim on January 27, 2021, 10:29:35 AM
latest news highlights what a mess the National League is.

www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55818377
Title: Re: Season cancelled?
Post by: Bodge on January 28, 2021, 06:11:50 PM
Looks like season over then?
Title: Re: Season cancelled?
Post by: Devon Pilgrim on January 28, 2021, 07:01:17 PM
A number of National North Clubs are saying on News Now that their season restarts on Sat 6th !!!???
Title: Re: Season cancelled?
Post by: Bodge on January 28, 2021, 07:02:35 PM
Not sure anything has really changed
Title: Re: Season cancelled?
Post by: gatley pilgrim on January 28, 2021, 08:33:19 PM
according to some of the club websites, there is a meeting tomorrow to discuss grants / loans seems like 13 clubs from the National League North have signed a letter (not BUFC though).
www.gateshead-fc.com/news/statement-from-national-league-north-and-south-clubs-2596870.html
Title: Re: Season cancelled?
Post by: gatley pilgrim on January 29, 2021, 02:34:06 PM
see update on official BUFC website
Title: Re: Season cancelled?
Post by: Fishtoft Crew on January 29, 2021, 06:15:14 PM
David never lets me down with his measured and honest approach. Really does look at things from both sides of the fence. He is a credit to the club and the town in general.
Title: Re: Season cancelled?
Post by: Pilgrim in France on January 29, 2021, 06:27:12 PM
We are certainly very, very lucky to have him as our Chairman. What he has done for the club is unbelievable, and all for our long term future.
Title: Re: Season cancelled?
Post by: Dipdodah on January 29, 2021, 07:36:56 PM
We are certainly very, very lucky to have him as our Chairman. What he has done for the club is unbelievable, and all for our long term future.
We could name a street after him, or a corner ;)
Title: Re: Season cancelled?
Post by: Oakham Pilgrim on January 29, 2021, 10:39:32 PM
What about a campaign for freedom of the town, or whatever award the borough has for showing its appreciation?
Title: Re: Season cancelled?
Post by: Ed Kandii on January 30, 2021, 10:43:59 AM
David Newton takes a sensible view for the club and the fans  B)
Title: Re: Season cancelled?
Post by: Dipdodah on January 30, 2021, 10:57:45 AM
Perhaps someone can tell me?  The letter submitted by various clubs, concerning making the season null and void, have the undersigned clubs got an ulterior motive?  Are these clubs struggling (form wise) in their respective leagues?  I have not read the letter, but the cynic in me thinks a void season would benefit such clubs.  I am sure some of my forum buddies will enlighten me ;)
Title: Re: Season cancelled?
Post by: oxo on January 30, 2021, 04:55:49 PM
Perhaps someone can tell me?  The letter submitted by various clubs, concerning making the season null and void, have the undersigned clubs got an ulterior motive?  Are these clubs struggling (form wise) in their respective leagues?  I have not read the letter, but the cynic in me thinks a void season would benefit such clubs.  I am sure some of my forum buddies will enlighten me ;)

Hi Mick, 12 teams in our league signed the letter and not one of them is in the top ten, they are as follows.
Telford   Played 17  place in league 13th  Points 19
Alfreton            15                        21st            12     
BPA                  17                        14th            18
C/Ashton           17                        16th            17
Darlo                11                         19th            13
Farsley              17                         13th            21
Gateshead         14                         10th            21
Guisely              13                         20th            13
Hereford            12                         15th            17
Kettering            14                        18th             15
Southport           14                        17th            16
Spennymoor       13                         12               20

Sorry Gateshead are 10th. But along with all the others are showing very little form. Make of it what you wil but it does appear to me that they could all feel they have nothing to play for.  UTP
Title: Re: Season cancelled?
Post by: Dipdodah on January 30, 2021, 06:24:20 PM
Cheers Mel. Looking at the list,  it looks pretty evident.  Saying that, I think the league should never have started. This covid is one big worry especially for us old buggers  :D
Title: Re: Season cancelled?
Post by: Kearsley Pilgrim on January 30, 2021, 06:26:56 PM
https://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/sport/19050973.bradford-will-refuse-play-without-grant-intervention/

Bradford Park Avenue's stance
Title: Re: Season cancelled?
Post by: Ed Kandii on January 30, 2021, 07:19:57 PM
According to the letter from the DCMS funding is available in the form of grants for clubs who don't want the loans, so BPA are covered.
Surely clubs can't get away with voting to end the season if they are covered financially, but are having a bad season so far?  ??? 
Title: Re: Season cancelled?
Post by: Stannington Pilgrim on February 01, 2021, 08:58:25 AM
Maybe some clubs don't want to open up their finances for scrutiny to apply for a Loan?
Title: Re: Season cancelled?
Post by: gatley pilgrim on February 01, 2021, 10:10:43 AM
More voting and meetings expected this week, with the National League having a separate say to North and South divisions. Not surprisingly Chorley are in favour of continuing as they have all their FA Cup money. As previously pointed out there is little incentive for teams near the bottom of our league to continue.

www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55878782
Title: Re: Season cancelled?
Post by: gatley pilgrim on February 01, 2021, 09:01:42 PM
latest update from National League re voting to end season or not. Seems like clubs have 28 days to vote so not sure if season starts again this coming saturday or not.

www.thenationalleague.org.uk/national-league-statement-written-resolutions-65069
Title: Re: Season cancelled?
Post by: Bodge on February 01, 2021, 09:36:31 PM
Can someone please explain to me simply WTF is happening and are we playing Saturday?
Title: Re: Season cancelled?
Post by: Dipdodah on February 02, 2021, 07:04:46 AM
Can someone explain to me the voting system  ;D. The way I read it Trump is our new captain.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Season cancelled?
Post by: oxo on February 02, 2021, 10:08:10 AM
Like I have said before the Leagues are administered by a bunch of unprofessional morons. How can the higher eschelons of the game be allowed to ignore the plight of non league clubs. No genuine football supporter should be showing the slightest support for Premier League clubs and shoving money their way by subscibing to TV to watch them. The obscene amount of money in the game at the highest level will always be there and we at our level will just have to accept that those who administer our leagues are in tow or are scared to criticise them. Just feel for David and Neil beeing professionals having to deal with a bunch of cretins.
Title: Re: Season cancelled?
Post by: gatley pilgrim on February 03, 2021, 10:10:45 AM
In respect of the voting system the BPA website is a bit clearer but still does not make it absolutely clear. In any case it seems very complicated about the possible outcome.

As i see it.

Resolution 1 is voted on by all 23 NL sides and NLN and NLS get 8 votes in total regarding whether to go for Res 2&3 or Res 4. It is not clear how the 8 votes are cast (Proportional representation maybe). Teams near bottom of NL may think the best option is to get a null and void season and the best way to get that is to vote against Res 1 as a 75% majority is required to pass it. If it does get passed then only 50% of NL teams to pass Res 2 for season to continue and I imagine the top 12 would do that. So if bottom 6 of NL vote against Res 1 then only 2 of the 8 NLN / NLS votes need to go against Res 1 and the decision is then on Res 4.

So if it goes to Res 4 then either all 3 leagues continue or all 3 end. So if only bottom 7 of NL vote for, then season will continue as need 50% majority overall to pass (and season to end). I think it will need the bottom 10 of NL to vote for and 6+ of NLN / NLS to vote for, for season to end.

My prediction is therefore for Res 1 to fail and go to Res 4 and that will marginally fail and so season continues. However, given that clubs have 28 days to vote, then it depends on what happens regarding loans vs grants in the meantime. If clubs in NLN and NLS get grants approved then more likely for season to continue.

I did see 1 reference to say that NLN and NLS would each have separate votes and therefore separate possible outcomes but that is not mentioned elsewhere.

Hopefully this makes some sense!!!!
Title: Re: Season cancelled?
Post by: Ferret on February 03, 2021, 04:57:07 PM
I assume that if the leagues are null and voided then so will the FA Trophy?
Title: Re: Season cancelled?
Post by: Lee Newell on February 04, 2021, 08:56:16 AM
Can someone please explain to me simply WTF is happening and are we playing Saturday?

I don't think anybody is sure either way at the moment. Bit of a shambles really. Fixtures are arranged for Saturday but many clubs in National League North and South saying they won't play until outcome of vote is known. National League really need to come out today with a statement on Saturday's fixtures. Further suspension feels most likely but could be the case that some clubs play Saturday and others choose not to.

Curzon who we are scheduled to play Saturday were one of the clubs in the joint statement of 17 clubs saying they don't want to restart playing until they get covid testing funding. So we could be without a match if Curzon don't want to play without funding for testing.
Title: Re: Season cancelled?
Post by: Pete B on February 04, 2021, 10:36:37 AM
I assume that if the leagues are null and voided then so will the FA Trophy?

No, I think that would carry on! Bizarrely.
Title: Re: Season cancelled?
Post by: gatley pilgrim on February 04, 2021, 11:21:17 AM
According to the AFC Fylde website statement funding for Covid tests has been agreed and so hopefully will be inplace for Curzon before Saturday.

'Last week we circulated information to fellow National League North members regarding the availability of lateral flow testing and how it has now become very affordable. Rapid testing programmes are not perfect but provide a very useful tool in detecting infection in asymptomatic individuals. The costs are now down to £5.25 per test, and because of that we are testing twice a week, so for 30 players and staff it’s £315. Clubs do not need to test twice a week – that decision lies entirely with the football club – but once a week will cost £157.50. We also suggested that it would not be unreasonable to ask the players to pay/donate themselves if clubs are really struggling. Since that time, in fact early this morning, Sport England have now verbally given assurances that they will be paying for these tests in the future.'
Title: Re: Season cancelled?
Post by: Pilgrim86 on February 04, 2021, 03:13:29 PM
AFC Fylde are full-time aren't they? It makes more sense for them to do it twice weekly due to how often their players will be with each other.
Title: Re: Season cancelled?
Post by: doc on February 11, 2021, 08:29:09 AM
Dover Chairman, Jim Parmenter has today resigned as a Director of the National League.

In a letter sent to National League Chairman, Brian Barwick and members of the board, Mr Parmenter said “I can no longer support the direction of travel that the board is taking and I’m afraid I can no longer be seen to be party to actions which I absolutely disagree with.

I accept that the board is a collective and whilst as a member it is a prerequisite that, in public, the board and it’s Chairman are supported. I have therefore chosen to resign, in order to say what I really believe publicly.

The lack of grant funding should have been properly addressed in late December or at least very early January. As it stands it is likely to be two months with no funds for clubs before any sort of resolution is forthcoming.

I am in particular disagreement that the executive appear to be encouraging clubs to take large loans to complete the season, as I have said twice at board meetings I believe that the competition rules are being broken by allowing the proposed loans, let alone encouraging them. (Page 155 Appendices 08 of the rule book).

The league has for ten years insisted that clubs manage their financial affairs prudently and has had great success and received much praise for the results, now that is all to be thrown to the dogs and for what?

I understand why the bigger, richer clubs with chances of promotion are pushing hard to continue, but in a sense they are asking smaller clubs with no crowds or income who are playing for no reason to take large loans and probably over stretch themselves with dire consequences, to subsidise the larger clubs ambitions. I do not agree with that position.

The board has very little credibility as an organisation within our clubs and I believe the decision to send letters to clubs who find it difficult to play, threatening sanctions was ill conceived and will do nothing to unite the competition in what continues to be a very divisive time. Even if the vote is to continue I do not believe that the league will be able to continue in any credible form or with integrity for another five months.

There are some very good people on the board and I do not seek to criticise individuals, but as a body I do not believe we have shown strong, relevant leadership. Our governance has descended into chaos and some decisions made by the board seem to change when interpreted by the executive.”
Title: Re: Season cancelled?
Post by: oxo on February 11, 2021, 01:27:58 PM
All that from a man who has overseen his club go to the brink over the past few years and stated they would go have to go out of business way before this pandemic. All sounds very heartfelt but there is a lot more to this man than appears just ask Dover supporters if you can find any. All good points he makes and if it had come from anyone else it would have had more credit.
Title: Re: Season cancelled?
Post by: oxo on February 11, 2021, 01:32:16 PM
All that from a man who has overseen his club go to the brink over the past few years and stated they would go have to go out of business way before this pandemic. All sounds very heartfelt but there is a lot more to this man than appears just ask Dover supporters if you can find any. All good points he makes and if it had come from anyone else it would have had more credit.
By the way where are Dover in the League?
Title: Re: Season cancelled?
Post by: gatley pilgrim on February 11, 2021, 06:25:44 PM
'Hamlet have tweeted confirmation the club has been charged with failing to fulfill the Braintree and St Albans fixtures.'

Presumably this will also apply to Curzon etc. Interesting to see if clubs still refuse to play this Saturday, although expect a lot of frozen pitches.

Curzon now stated they have been charged for failing to fulfill fixtures. They are also claiming that teams who earlier in the season failed to fulfil fixtures should be similarly charged, which of course includes BUFC (but I thought National league agreed to such postponements).

What a mees the National League has got itself in, bet the Legal Profession will be rubbing their hands!!
Title: Re: Season cancelled?
Post by: Burgh Boy on February 11, 2021, 09:02:54 PM
Elite Football? Clubs refusing to play? Bizarre and/or inept action by the League Committee? The National League need to realise how silly, annoying and ungrateful they look to the overwhelming of "non-elite" non-league football leagues who display better unity but are unable to play or even train due to the current Covid19 restrictions. Better togetherness is currently being displayed by Handforth Parish Council than National League clubs!  :police:
Title: Re: Season cancelled?
Post by: BostonGoals on February 13, 2021, 11:34:05 PM
There been enough ‘public’ votes at NLN and NLS clubs for a majority of null and void, so if the resolution to allow clubs to vote on their own steps passes (which looks likely), then that’s it for this season at our level.

That then leaves the possibility of the National League (step 1) voting to carry on but several clubs have already announced they’re furloughing players and if forced to continue will use local players. Could end up as a complete farce (if not already) with clubs losing 25-0 to teams like Notts County every week.

Unfortunately this season was doomed the moment they decided to start without any sort of plan on what would happen when the grant money ran out in January.
Title: Re: Season cancelled?
Post by: Johnny Pilgrim on February 14, 2021, 11:16:51 AM
Quite frankly, and with much sadness in my voice, I  have to say that {IMO, but Im only saying what a lot of other fans believe and are saying } I just cannot  see the point in playing the next match {Darlington away, as I write this, and I bet that doesnt go ahead...} or carrying the season on.

Not many clubs seem to have the appetite, or money, to carry on. Clubs seem to be able to postphone matches quite easily and there doesnt seem to be any firm directive from the NL themselves. And from a fans point of view, its getting hard to relate to matters on the field, not having ever seen the players play in person.
It must also be so difficult for the players themselves , everything seems "on hold and uncertain".

I obviously dont know all the true facts about everything ,but surely it was foolhardy to actually start the NL season in the first place knowing that there would be loans only, and not Grants, available in 2021.

Its a mess, and the NL really need to get a grip on the situation and make some definite decisions or there may well be no more NL anymore, and clubs like our beloved BUFC will have a shiny new stadium, quite a few players on contract and outgoings to meet, but with nobody to play...
Title: Re: Season cancelled?
Post by: Ed Kandii on February 14, 2021, 01:30:18 PM
Resolution voting is taking too long,  the national league board have zero credibility left, time to resign en masse  :police:
Title: Re: Season cancelled?
Post by: Bodge on February 18, 2021, 07:19:21 PM
That’s it season finished
Title: Re: Season cancelled?
Post by: Pete B on February 18, 2021, 07:22:36 PM
Null and void.

See you in August folks!
Title: Re: Season cancelled?
Post by: Kirtonian on February 18, 2021, 07:57:23 PM
I really hope we can return to normal in August. So much looking forward to visiting the new ground.
Title: Re: Season cancelled?
Post by: Cavalier on February 18, 2021, 08:30:57 PM
Like last season, we finished in 3rd place on points per game basis.  Just hope we can keep the squad for next season.
Title: Re: Season cancelled?
Post by: Burgh Boy on February 18, 2021, 09:18:58 PM
The League Committee, certain clubs, bad weather and Covid19 infections have sadly made this the only workable decision. This season has turned into a farce and has showed very little of the "eliteness" that clubs worked hard to convince the Government of last year. See you all in August. Take care. :police:
Title: Re: Season cancelled?
Post by: Oakham Pilgrim on February 19, 2021, 09:57:51 AM
Disappointing though it is, I'm not surprised. The season was rapidly becoming a farce. Let's hope we can retain the players, and then next season really feel part of something when we can get into the wonderful new ground and be together. It's not been easy to keep a sense of identity being so distanced from everything.
Title: Re: Season cancelled?
Post by: Ed Kandii on February 20, 2021, 05:44:41 PM
Apparently the he majority of the 66 clubs that make up the National League voted to continue the season. 
The voting for Resolution 3 was very close, maybe only one or two votes in it,  and the Resolution to end the season was only passed because they didn't allow one vote for each club.
National League clubs had one vote each, National league North and National league South had 4 votes for each league, allowing the possibility of the vote being skewed away from a true representation of the majority view; which is exactly what has happened.

The National League board need to resign en masse and allow David Newton, and the other signatories to yesterday's open letter, to form an interim board to organise a satisfactory conclusion to the season for those clubs that do wish to play on.  :police:
Title: Re: Season cancelled?
Post by: Pete B on February 22, 2021, 11:02:34 AM
Nah, I'd done with this season. No idea what we're playing at signing that letter. Chester and others are busy building competitive squads for next season - last thing we need to be doing is being dragged into some LetUsPlay nonsense and fall behind the clubs that have no intention of carrying on.
Title: Re: Season cancelled?
Post by: Ed Kandii on February 22, 2021, 07:53:57 PM
 "Step One and Two to be split in deciding the outcome of 2020/21 Playing Season. As a Special Resolution, a voting percentage of 75% or higher was required to pass.

National League: (for) 21- (against) 0

National League North: 16-6

National League South: 9-12

Result: Passed

As a result, Resolution Four is disregarded."



 This is the voting for Special Resolution 1,  so all the clubs voted, not just 4 each from NLN & NLS as was stated earlier.
If the League bothered to ask all the clubs to vote then why not include all the clubs in the percentage figure calculated to decide whether this Resolution passed, or failed?
If you include all the votes and all the clubs then it gives 72% which means Resolution 1 fails, Resolutions 2 & 3 are disregarded, and Resolution 4 kicks in, which shuts down all 3 leagues.

Is there anyone with a maths O level who can explain how they came to the figure of > 75% please  :o


Title: Re: Season cancelled?
Post by: Pete B on February 22, 2021, 09:36:20 PM
"Step One and Two to be split in deciding the outcome of 2020/21 Playing Season. As a Special Resolution, a voting percentage of 75% or higher was required to pass.

National League: (for) 21- (against) 0

National League North: 16-6

National League South: 9-12

Result: Passed

As a result, Resolution Four is disregarded."



 This is the voting for Special Resolution 1,  so all the clubs voted, not just 4 each from NLN & NLS as was stated earlier.
If the League bothered to ask all the clubs to vote then why not include all the clubs in the percentage figure calculated to decide whether this Resolution passed, or failed?
If you include all the votes and all the clubs then it gives 72% which means Resolution 1 fails, Resolutions 2 & 3 are disregarded, and Resolution 4 kicks in, which shuts down all 3 leagues.

Is there anyone with a maths O level who can explain how they came to the figure of > 75% please  :o
[/quote

"The voting method for that resolution [1] meant that the North and South Leagues only had four votes each, so the 75% threshold was comfortably reached."
Title: Re: Season cancelled?
Post by: Johnny Pilgrim on February 23, 2021, 09:19:29 AM
interesting article from the Daily Mail 23/2/2021.

NLN and NLS Clubs are apparently discussing the prospect of setting up  A NEW LEAGUE, with at least 19 clubs in support of breakaway plans.

If it is to happen, it obviously needs to happen fast given the limited timeframe available.

Also IMO, a new replacement league would be totally pointless without the prospect of promotion to the NL.
Title: Re: Season cancelled?
Post by: Ed Kandii on February 24, 2021, 10:45:02 AM
The four votes each for the NLN & NLS were mentioned, but when the results were published the voting came back as:

National League North 16(for) - 6 (against)

National League South 9 - 12

So presumably all 4 votes from NLN were carried over for the resolution, and all 4 votes from the NLS went against it.
Which means around 24% of the 64 clubs voting, cast votes that had no impact on Resolution 1.
Clubs voting for Resolution 1 = 72% if calculated as a % of the 64 club membership, less than the threshold, so all leagues would be declared null and void. Using the 4 vote system, calculated from the 29 votes counted, gives 86% so the split decision was passed, and the National League were home and dry.
So it was set up this way to ensure that the lower leagues would be unlikely to shut down the National League, whose clubs all wanted to continue.
My view is that all the Resolutions should have required a 75% majority.  If you are overturning the National League rulebook concerning completion of fixtures, then it is far from an 'ordinary' resolution, and should require a much higher threshold than 50%. 

All businesses need protection, not just those bigger clubs.
With the furlough scheme due to end in March, and contracted players to be paid, the decent squad we have now could be broken up, with no chance of any income the way things are. 
 :-\