Pilgrims' Patter
The Forum => The B-Ark => Topic started by: tom and jerry on April 23, 2017, 07:26:52 AM
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these are just my thoughts. but interested to know other peoples views of course it isn't up to me though!
I WOULD RELEASE
hilliard fairhurst maguire clarke st juste wildin marshall bishop and chippendale
I WOULD GIVE THE FOLLOWING A CHANCE IN PRE SEASON BECAUSE OF INJURY
pepe roberts burgess
THE FOLLOWING LOANEES FATE MAY BE DECIDED BY PARENT CLUBS SO NOT OUR CALL
mani robinson gatter
I AM 50/50 ON KEEPING
gordon briscoe brown and emery (he may just want to play somewhere rather than sub up)
AND WOULD OFFER TO RETAIN
thomas rollins yeomans durrant batchelor chapman adams hawley (in dual coach/ sub capacity) payne (as GK cover as he will improve). of course we already have vinno gregg and broadhead tied down
of course some of those who we offer may not want to stay. but these are just my views. let me know yours fellow pilgrims. great support yesterday by the way people. big congrats to those drumming/ singing- made for a fine atmosphere
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I echo a majority of your thoughts T&J, but I would only keep Briscoe and Brown from your 50/50s. Briscoe I think is skilful with more to give, but is struggling for fitness, and Brown has played better since his return. More commanding, and seems to work well with Batch. I think we have a good nucleus to start building upon, but let's not lose sight of a big task against teams that either have much bigger playing budgets, and or are full time. Desperately need a goal scorer to add to these players though. There's plenty of work to be done, but let's hope we win our last game, and I'm sure he's true to his word, Adam Murray can get on with shaping his own squad, rather than half an inherited one with a long list of injuries. UTP.
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It will be interesting for sure,I have never been so excited to see a retain list. Lol 😁
Whatever happens,there is no denying that DG signed some rubbish last season.
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so far only news is fairhurst emery st juste and marshall have been released
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Good choice so far.
Going to be some surprise's, I think.
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It will be interesting for sure,I have never been so excited to see a retain list. Lol 😁
Whatever happens,there is no denying that DG signed some rubbish last season.
I think you will find that Murray has signed a few duds also, there is no denying that too. Chapman best midfielder in the league claim for instance,he still has a lot to do to live up to that status to be honest. But, we can only really see the true capabilities of the manger once he gets the team that he will call his. From then on, no excuses. Hopefully all will come good, and we'll have a team to be proud of.
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It will be interesting for sure,I have never been so excited to see a retain list. Lol 😁
Whatever happens,there is no denying that DG signed some rubbish last season.
arguably AM's best results came at the start of his employment whilst using "rubbish"...none of his signings have set the world alight and i guess a lot will not be here next season.
i dont think any of DG signings were "rubbish" ...what happened is they either got injured or failed to live up to any expectations.
Rollins got various awards at the end of the season...Brown was MOM v Fylde...Thomas is spoken of as the most improved player ..Pepe's name is being mentioned as a keeper..Gregg Smith is a favourite...the club had been looking at Batch long before he turned up.....like i say a few (well a lot really) let him and themselves down
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..Pepe's name is being mentioned as a keeper
I think I'd rather keep Ross Durrant in goal.
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..Pepe's name is being mentioned as a keeper
I think I'd rather keep Ross Durrant in goal.
lol...got me :)
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Has anyone got an opinion on why Fairhurst was such a disappointment,other than the overweight issue and his obvious fall out with DG.
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Maguire, Wildin and Chippendale leaving too according to the latest reports.
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Hopefully the 2 loan players + 4/5 more to go after Saturdays match .
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..Pepe's name is being mentioned as a keeper
I think I'd rather keep Ross Durrant in goal.
unconfirmed rumour-mungering...........next keeper...........Jasbir Singh
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is that the Singh family so loved by the Stylistics?
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where's that rumour come from?
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Mmmm, Singh has been on the Boston fans wish list for over five years now. But, as with St Juste, another player who they kept saying that they wanted in, when they did get their wish, he flopped for most of the time in our shirt. Is Singh in that same bracket, good at his peak, but slowly dropping in form and consistency ?
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Singh is only 27, so should have a few good years left as a goalkeeper.
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Singh is a very good keeper,but Durrant has lots of potential and has pulled of some great saves this season.
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i agree with youngchubby
ross is probably the youngest keeper 'owned' by a club ie not a loan from a pro club, and playing regularly at this level. he has improved during his 20 odd games with us and will continue to do so in my view. singh is decent but in my view, no better than what we have. let's not forget young payne either, he's had an excellent season at youth level and so in the two of them we are well set up in the GK department to go forward. he's not ready to play at this level yet so if anything happened to ross i think a loan would be needed but the two of them are both promising. i would be very surprised if murray goes for singh
don't forget singh's last act at york street was to drop a cross to allow us to draw the gloucester game!
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I feel sure AM will sign a proven keeper. Ross shows promise and I have no doubt he will be a number one in the future, but to have a title pushing side you need a keeper who bosses the defence and commands his area, Ross still has a lot to improve on in that department.
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4 -1 ..
Who to keep ??
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4 -1 ..
Who to keep ??
Very few !
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I thought the team selection was a bit odd.......apart from Jay Rollins (who will surely better himself) I can't see any of the existing squad being good enough, or committed enough to take us forward.
I hope AM gets to grips with this.
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Am I being cynical by suggesting that some of the players know they won't be here next season and are just going through the motions?
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After todays result the list will probably be very short :(
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Maybe ,for possible potential Batch , Broads ..Rollins Thomas if they stay ..full stop :-\
I mean some of these xcept Rolly are really bench fodder .
So i would say about 16 substantive signings + 2 season loans + better short term loans than last 10 seasons ..
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After listening to Adams post match interview,it seems that most of the squad is going,he said that the players who he signed and the ones left out of DG squad,were only good enough to keep us up.
So most will be gone, as he has given them enough time to prove they have what it takes to get promotion next season.
Lets face it, he is certainly is wright about most of them,wether he signed them or not.
He said that he has no problem with being ruthless and he will.
Today he let them play with freedom and not being restrained by his tactics and formation, and look what's happened,his point has been proven, they are not good enough. His words not mine.
The injured players will get a chance in pre season to impress him, if they choose to come back.
You can't say fairer than that, much anticipation for next season, but our budget is not going to be anywhere near the full time clubs in this league,which many managers in this league are starting to come out and make complaints about it, in the media.
I don't care how much abuse I get over the following opinion but, I don't think any club should be allowed to be full time at this level,its spoiling non league,its not non league, semi professional means part time, not full time.
Some players are on £2000 a week, its killing the spirit of non league and financially crippling clubs who are having to sign players with high wage demands, the average is £700 a week and that includes full or part time players.
I wish that I was on £700 a week,and many players have day jobs as well, greed beyond belief.
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After listening to Adams post match interview,it seems that most of the squad is going,he said that the players who he signed and the ones left out of DG squad,were only good enough to keep us up.
So most will be gone, as he has given them enough time to prove they have what it takes to get promotion next season.
Lets face it, he is certainly is wright about most of them,wether he signed them or not.
He said that he has no problem with being ruthless and he will.
Today he let them play with freedom and not being restrained by his tactics and formation, and look what's happened,his point has been proven, they are not good enough. His words not mine.
The injured players will get a chance in pre season to impress him, if they choose to come back.
You can't say fairer than that, much anticipation for next season, but our budget is not going to be anywhere near the full time clubs in this league,which many managers in this league are starting to come out and make complaints about it, in the media.
I don't care how much abuse I get over the following opinion but, I don't think any club should be allowed to be full time at this level,its spoiling non league,its not non league, semi professional means part time, not full time.
Some players are on £2000 a week, its killing the spirit of non league and financially crippling clubs who are having to sign players with high wage demands, the average is £700 a week and that includes full or part time players.
I wish that I was on £700 a week,and many players have day jobs as well, greed beyond belief.
Think most will agree with you about wages and f/t in non-league . Problem is how do we stop it ? Caps on wages lead to under the counter payments .
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After listening to Adams post match interview,it seems that most of the squad is going,he said that the players who he signed and the ones left out of DG squad,were only good enough to keep us up.
So most will be gone, as he has given them enough time to prove they have what it takes to get promotion next season.
Lets face it, he is certainly is wright about most of them,wether he signed them or not.
He said that he has no problem with being ruthless and he will.
Today he let them play with freedom and not being restrained by his tactics and formation, and look what's happened,his point has been proven, they are not good enough. His words not mine.
The injured players will get a chance in pre season to impress him, if they choose to come back.
You can't say fairer than that, much anticipation for next season, but our budget is not going to be anywhere near the full time clubs in this league,which many managers in this league are starting to come out and make complaints about it, in the media.
I don't care how much abuse I get over the following opinion but, I don't think any club should be allowed to be full time at this level,its spoiling non league,its not non league, semi professional means part time, not full time.
Some players are on £2000 a week, its killing the spirit of non league and financially crippling clubs who are having to sign players with high wage demands, the average is £700 a week and that includes full or part time players.
I wish that I was on £700 a week,and many players have day jobs as well, greed beyond belief.
seem remarkably well informed. :)
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Excellent points chubby & GHM on financial fair play at our level. But the football league don't help at all. York came down from league 2 with a half a million parachute payment to help them get back out of the conference. They completely waste the funds & get relegated again into the conference north. They now get another parachute payment of £250,000 to help get them back into the conference. The payment is designed to get them back into league 2 not give them a 250k start on their Conf north opponents.
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As I said in a previous thread, I would get rid of many as possible. I only rate the left back.
At this level, there'll be loads of decent players available in the summer. Murray just needs to pick them out - and on the right terms.
Will be really pleased to see the back of this very average group.
TEP
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At this level, there'll be loads of decent players available in the summer. Murray just needs to pick them out - and on the right terms.
TEP
All well and good locating these players, its how we can compete for them when other clubs will be offering much higher contracts that is always going to be our big problem, no matter how persuasive our manager might be. I know its always been a hot topic for debate, but i for one wouldn't turn away an investor who would be happy to put some money forward into the club to make us more financially competitive. So long as the terms were in our best interests, of course. This summer is huge for Murray, i just hope he can deliver a top five squad to make our ambitions come true.
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Agreed, would think finances are against 'suitable' players arriving en masse for a few seasons more .
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At this level, there'll be loads of decent players available in the summer. Murray just needs to pick them out - and on the right terms.
TEP
All well and good locating these players, its how we can compete for them when other clubs will be offering much higher contracts that is always going to be our big problem, no matter how persuasive our manager might be. I know its always been a hot topic for debate, but i for one wouldn't turn away an investor who would be happy to put some money forward into the club to make us more financially competitive. So long as the terms were in our best interests, of course. This summer is huge for Murray, i just hope he can deliver a top five squad to make our ambitions come true.
I don't think "investment" is the correct term to use when putting money into non-league football , investment is making a profit on the money laid out , no profit to be made in non-league football . I'm sure we are the envy of many clubs the money that Chestnuts pump into the club .
As you say a huge summer for Murray , but will top five please some fans ? , bearing in mind the last manger was hounded out for ONLY achieving 5th and 3rd places .
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Of the players who started today we thought only two should be regulars next season - Durrant and Batchelor, and the latter needs someone else with pace in the back four. I'd like to keep Hilliard to play behind the strikers but I don't think AM will.
I also would keep Thomas and maybe Briscoe but I think will are in for a clear-out like when Scott and Hurst came and we only kept Liam Parker and the sub keeper. If so, that seems fair enough
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At this level, there'll be loads of decent players available in the summer. Murray just needs to pick them out - and on the right terms.
TEP
All well and good locating these players, its how we can compete for them when other clubs will be offering much higher contracts that is always going to be our big problem, no matter how persuasive our manager might be. I know its always been a hot topic for debate, but i for one wouldn't turn away an investor who would be happy to put some money forward into the club to make us more financially competitive. So long as the terms were in our best interests, of course. This summer is huge for Murray, i just hope he can deliver a top five squad to make our ambitions come true.
I don't think "investment" is the correct term to use when putting money into non-league football , investment is making a profit on the money laid out , no profit to be made in non-league football . I'm sure we are the envy of many clubs the money that Chestnuts pump into the club .
As you say a huge summer for Murray , but will top five please some fans ? , bearing in mind the last manger was hounded out for ONLY achieving 5th and 3rd places .
Yeah, maybe the term 'investor' was not the right word to use, but you get my point. To be competitive in non league these days, you need to be competitive money wise, while that my not be morally right, its the way things have gone. I agree about how the previous manager was hounded out after achieving good things the previous two seasons, but we have to now move on from that. Although, thus far i am yet to be convinced with the new set up. But, with a clean slate from now until the new season, there can be no excuses made once the season gets under way. I think a top five finish has to be our aim, we know a minority of fans want automatic promotion, but we have to be realistic. It would be nice, but so too would be a season of reaching the play offs and having a half decent cup run. We trust Murray will get this right and deliver.
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Of those left now after 7 releases and loanees going back I would only keep Adams Hawley Batchelor Thomas Durrant Yeomans
Burgess Roberts and Pepe to be given pre season chances plus Smith Broadhead and Vince already signed
Looks like Rollins on his way anyway
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Am amazed that Batchelor and Hawley are on some retained lists........
IMHO Batchelor has been left stranded too often....we need a new defensive back line.
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of those left and not yet signed up longer term this is what i reckon
keep batch ross hawley thomas yeomans pepe burgess roberts adams
lose bishop brown hilly gordon clarke
50 50 on chapman
rollins looks like he's on his way
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Re: Chapman , Employing your best mate in any line of business often turns out to be a mistake .
I think Adam will now be reflecting that the job is more difficult than he thought , which should make him more determined to succeed .
Hope those who hounded DG out allow Adam to get on with the job and not throw abuse at what will be set backs along the way . Hope he can make a few early impressive signings to get fans backing .
Certainly the most difficult task is sorting out a strike force , some fans don't appreciate how well we have been served in this department over recent years . Greene inherited Marc Newsham from the S & H team and added Ricky Miller to form a lethal partnership . When Miller departed Greene bought in Dayle Southwell and the goals continued to flow . When injuries caught up with Marc he was replaced with Mark Jones who formed a good partnership with Southwell . With both departing it meant a new start .
Greene brought in Gregg Smith , Fairhurst and Colly as his strike force . Gregg has proved to be a worthy successor to Ricky and Dayle .
Rollins had to step up to be a strike partner for Gregg due to the disastrous signings of Fairhust (1 goal ) and Colley (1 goal 1 missed pen .)
Adam signed 5 strikers, Brodie , Hawley , Simmonds , Mani and Bishop who scored a total of 5 goals between them .
It seems that Jay is going so that leaves us in the same position as when DG came i.e . one good striker . Hopefully a partner of the calibre of Dayle or Ricky can be found for Gregg.
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Am amazed that Batchelor and Hawley are on some retained lists........
Hawley is a coach, and will be staying.
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York came down from league 2 with a half a million parachute payment to help them get back out of the conference. They completely waste the funds & get relegated again into the conference north. They now get another parachute payment of £250,000 to help get them back into the conference. The payment is designed to get them back into league 2 not give them a 250k start on their Conf north opponents.
No, it isn't. It's there to try and keep the clubs afloat, and to cover any players left over after relegation on Football League wages. IMO, this should be managed better by the FL and literally used to pay their retained players (upto a certain figure, say £200000, maximum 4 players) that earn over £1000 a week - not just free money to be used for a bigger squad. Same for the relegated Premier League teams, except use a figure of £20,000 a week.
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York came down from league 2 with a half a million parachute payment to help them get back out of the conference. They completely waste the funds & get relegated again into the conference north. They now get another parachute payment of £250,000 to help get them back into the conference. The payment is designed to get them back into league 2 not give them a 250k start on their Conf north opponents.
No, it isn't. It's there to try and keep the clubs afloat, and to cover any players left over after relegation on Football League wages. IMO, this should be managed better by the FL and literally used to pay their retained players (upto a certain figure, say £200000, maximum 4 players) that earn over £1000 a week - not just free money to be used for a bigger squad. Same for the relegated Premier League teams, except use a figure of £20,000 a week.
Exactly! Should York be handed £250k to pay retained players League 2 wages in the National North?? Like I said the FL are not helping at all with financial fair play at our level.
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As I understand it,the conference can and does set it's own rules and regulations,surely this ridiculous situation should be sorted out by them.
I think the conference bosses have truly lost their way, and the meaning of non league which is semi professional, and part time.
I have drafted an email with the help of a legal friend, and it will be sent to them this week,I have had enough of this ridiculous situation,we can all sit and take it or do something about it.
I am going to kick up a right old stink,why?
Because it does stink of hypocrisy.
I will await their reply and then raise a petition for fans and clubs to sign.
Parachute payments should stop, if you get relegated that's your fault live with it,and stand on your own two feet, if relegation means financial crisis,then those clubs are living beyond their own means, that's not anyone's else's problem but theirs.
I have no sympathy for them at all,Boston was mismanaged under the old owners, we had to face the consequences, and we got what we deserved and I had no sympathy for my beloved Boston then.
To much molly coddling goes on in this world,and not enough standing up to your own mistakes and facing up to what you have done.
As my old Grandad used to say "Man Up its your fault not mine".
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As I understand it,the conference can and does set it's own rules and regulations,surely this ridiculous situation should be sorted out by them.
I think the conference bosses have truly lost their way, and the meaning of non league which is semi professional, and part time.
I have drafted an email with the help of a legal friend, and it will be sent to them this week,I have had enough of this ridiculous situation,we can all sit and take it or do something about it.
I am going to kick up a right old stink,why?
Because it does stink of hypocrisy.
I will await their reply and then raise a petition for fans and clubs to sign.
Parachute payments should stop, if you get relegated that's your fault live with it,and stand on your own two feet, if relegation means financial crisis,then those clubs are living beyond their own means, that's not anyone's else's problem but theirs.
I have no sympathy for them at all,Boston was mismanaged under the old owners, we had to face the consequences, and we got what we deserved and I had no sympathy for my beloved Boston then.
To much molly coddling goes on in this world,and not enough standing up to your own mistakes and facing up to what you have done.
As my old Grandad used to say "Man Up its your fault not mine".
my issue with the above is consistency. Fair enough, if you've done wrong and been caught out, then take the punishment, but historically there have been numerous relegations saved and promotions blocked on technicalities depending on whether or not your non league face fit, or indeed whose chairman was also on the conference committee.
An example I can give of potential in-consistency is the current situation with Orient. I may be wrong, but isn't their situation similar to ours when the conference refused us entry, and we were double relegated? Surely Orient should suffer a similar fate? I will be very interested to see what happens there.
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CLUB STATEMENT: HMRC and club staff
Posted: Sat 29 Apr 2017
Author: leytonorient.com
image: http://www.leytonorient.com/cms_images/badge89-215501_613x460.jpg
LOFC
The O's
Image by: LOFC
In response to recent press releases, the Club confirms that today there isn't any outstanding debt to Her Majesty's Revenue & Customs (HMRC) and all salaries have been paid in full.
Read more at http://www.leytonorient.com/news/article/2016-17/os-statement-wages-and-hmrc-3697300.aspx#ju6y0TPsOvGboFzW.99
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the meaning of non league which is semi professional, and part time.
Really? Surely it just means "below the Football League". Traditionally, yes, non-league clubs were all part-time, but football has now evolved.
Were Rushden the first non-league team to go full time?
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the meaning of non league which is semi professional, and part time.
Really? Surely it just means "below the Football League". Traditionally, yes, non-league clubs were all part-time, but football has now evolved.
Were Rushden the first non-league team to go full time?
Back in the late 50s there was a wage cap of £20/week for footballers playing in the football league. There were no such rules for other leagues so clubs such as Headington United (later to become Oxford United) who played in the Southern League would offer players higher wages. Thus a journeyman centre-half called Ron Atkinson was able to earn more money playing for Headington than England international Tom Finney was earning at Preston North End.
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the meaning of non league which is semi professional, and part time.
Really? Surely it just means "below the Football League". Traditionally, yes, non-league clubs were all part-time, but football has now evolved.
Were Rushden the first non-league team to go full time?
Back in the late 50s there was a wage cap of £20/week for footballers playing in the football league. There were no such rules for other leagues so clubs such as Headington United (later to become Oxford United) who played in the Southern League would offer players higher wages. Thus a journeyman centre-half called Ron Atkinson was able to earn more money playing for Headington than England international Tom Finney was earning at Preston North End.
Not forgetting the amateur footballers of that era . Amateur cup finals to a packed Wembley Stadium and the best teams getting gates of around 6-8k I seem to recall . Many of these players were good enough for the FL .
Bostonian Mike Pinner was the England goalie , never turned pro but at spells at top clubs including Man U , Aston V and a few more .
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You guys have amazing memories and great stories, that's why I love this forum.
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Would have expected to see the official retained list by now, the suspense is killing me lol 😁
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Shane Clark released . more to follow shortly according to OS.
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Would have expected to see the official retained list by now, the suspense is killing me lol 😁
This forum IS the official list Chubby, you read most things here first!
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Shane Clark released . more to follow shortly according to OS.
Oxo will be raising a glass to that one LOL
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Nat Brown and Gordon gone .
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Can't be many left
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Very true TTT
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Good the Stamford lads are still here .
Hope that Grant Roberts stays..
Looking at squad page ,maybe 11 will stay ,which is too many :angel:
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but all of the players released so far (apart from the loans returning to their parent clubs) have been Dennis Greene signings. I'm not convinced that all of Murray's own signings pulled any trees up, so it does worry me a little bit that all of his own men still seem to be here. If we've true play-off ambitions for next season then we need a manager who isn't going to show favouritism to his own signings - putting the Adam Chapman debate to one side, has Colby Bishop really done enough during his games for us to indicate that he is the required standard?
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but all of the players released so far (apart from the loans returning to their parent clubs) have been Dennis Greene signings. I'm not convinced that all of Murray's own signings pulled any trees up, so it does worry me a little bit that all of his own men still seem to be here. If we've true play-off ambitions for next season then we need a manager who isn't going to show favouritism to his own signings - putting the Adam Chapman debate to one side, has Colby Bishop really done enough during his games for us to indicate that he is the required standard?
I guess more will be moved out and the ones that have gone were easy decisions . Looking at it from another angle YSP the few players that most fans what to keep are Greene signings , early days but Adam will have to do better with signings than thus far .
Surely Bishop must go , Adam signed 5 strikers including Bishop and they delivered and they scored an aggregate of 4 goals including one pen . A poorer return than Fairhurst and Colley ?
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but all of the players released so far (apart from the loans returning to their parent clubs) have been Dennis Greene signings. I'm not convinced that all of Murray's own signings pulled any trees up, so it does worry me a little bit that all of his own men still seem to be here. If we've true play-off ambitions for next season then we need a manager who isn't going to show favouritism to his own signings - putting the Adam Chapman debate to one side, has Colby Bishop really done enough during his games for us to indicate that he is the required standard?
Yes all of the players released so far were DG signings. However, there will be no favouritism from Murray to anybody. He will do whatever is best for BUFC. The players he brought in late season were tasked to keep us up! At that stage of the season you are severely limited as to what players are available.
AM said on Saturday Eve that most of the Squad would go. He will be ruthless & would have no qualms letting any player go once the survival job was done. As regards Chapman staying cos they are pals - nonsense! Murray's much to professional for that. He had no problem releasing Chapman from Mansfield last September.
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re releasing him from Mansfield..
if he isn't quite good enough for Con North as some suggest then he wasn't going to be good enough for league 2
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Durrant is the latest to be released, .... thoughts ?
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Durrant is the latest to be released, .... thoughts ?
Not surprised as I said on another thread you need a keeper who commands his area and defenders feel confident with, in time I am sure he will be a good keeper, but if Murray is serious about a promotion push he needs a top class custodian.
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Durrant is the latest to be released, .... thoughts ?
Not surprised as I said on another thread you need a keeper who commands his area and defenders feel confident with, in time I am sure he will be a good keeper, but if Murray is serious about a promotion push he needs a top class custodian.
Jas Singh
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Durrant is the latest to be released, .... thoughts ?
Not surprised as I said on another thread you need a keeper who commands his area and defenders feel confident with, in time I am sure he will be a good keeper, but if Murray is serious about a promotion push he needs a top class custodian.
Jas Singh
Fabian Speiss ?
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Singh was on the fans wish list four or five years ago, and up until recently. But his form is not as good as it was, i just fear it will be like the St Juste signing, another the fans really wanted, then when we do get him, it was several seasons too late.
How about Craig MacGillivray, ex Harrogate keeper who has been released by Walsall today ?
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Will be interesting to see if Hilliard stays or goes? Murray said before Xmas that he was a "real talent".
He shows in flashes that he's skillful & a scorer of spectacular goals. He's definitely an enigma who goes AWOL to often. Can AM get any more out of him, would he be more effective in a more advanced role. Or should he be on his way ?
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Will be interesting to see if Hilliard stays or goes? Murray said before Xmas that he was a "real talent".
He shows in flashes that he's skillful & a scorer of spectacular goals. He's definitely an enigma who goes AWOL to often. Can AM get any more out of him, would he be more effective in a more advanced role. Or should he be on his way ?
I would go for Hilliard as the better choice to keep over Chapman, who has failed to live up to his billing of 'best midfielder in this league'. Lewis could still progress, whereas could Chapman ? All we can do is trust the managers judgement until we see how next season pans out, from then on, no excuses.
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Great to see this clear out. Come the first match of next season I think we will probably not see any of this year's crop in the starting line up.
In respect of Chapman and being the best midfield player in the league, I think AM made similar comments about that lad that was from Telford a few months ago that went back. If we really are recruiting such good players then it will be interesting to see if AM can actually get the best out of them. No good getting all this 'talent' in if it can't be realised. A good manager get's the best out of his team - no matter what line of work it is.
TEP
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Will be interesting to see if Hilliard stays or goes? Murray said before Xmas that he was a "real talent".
He shows in flashes that he's skillful & a scorer of spectacular goals. He's definitely an enigma who goes AWOL to often. Can AM get any more out of him, would he be more effective in a more advanced role. Or should he be on his way ?
I would go for Hilliard as the better choice to keep over Chapman, who has failed to live up to his billing of 'best midfielder in this league'. Lewis could still progress, whereas could Chapman ? All we can do is trust the managers judgement until we see how next season pans out, from then on, no excuses.
I think Chapman could be the surprise next season with a full pre season and fitness levels up. After watching him this season were do think his biggest weaknesses are?
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Will be interesting to see if Hilliard stays or goes? Murray said before Xmas that he was a "real talent".
He shows in flashes that he's skillful & a scorer of spectacular goals. He's definitely an enigma who goes AWOL to often. Can AM get any more out of him, would he be more effective in a more advanced role. Or should he be on his way ?
I would go for Hilliard as the better choice to keep over Chapman, who has failed to live up to his billing of 'best midfielder in this league'. Lewis could still progress, whereas could Chapman ? All we can do is trust the managers judgement until we see how next season pans out, from then on, no excuses.
I think Chapman could be the surprise next season with a full pre season and fitness levels up. After watching him this season were do think his biggest weaknesses are?
i think it's been unfair criticism. the bloke gets bigged up by the manager and then is expected to drop straight into a team that's been losing and orchestrate a massive upturn. not a real expectation in my opinion. next season will be a much better judge of how good or otherwise he really is.
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Will be interesting to see if Hilliard stays or goes? Murray said before Xmas that he was a "real talent".
He shows in flashes that he's skillful & a scorer of spectacular goals. He's definitely an enigma who goes AWOL to often. Can AM get any more out of him, would he be more effective in a more advanced role. Or should he be on his way ?
I would go for Hilliard as the better choice to keep over Chapman, who has failed to live up to his billing of 'best midfielder in this league'. Lewis could still progress, whereas could Chapman ? All we can do is trust the managers judgement until we see how next season pans out, from then on, no excuses.
I think Chapman could be the surprise next season with a full pre season and fitness levels up. After watching him this season were do think his biggest weaknesses are?
For me he needs to do the simple things more often. Keep the ball longer and use it wisely. Gives it away too much. Workrate too needs to improve.
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I think he needs an energetic ball winner in the midfield with him, lets face it he is not the right age for running around like a man possessed.
An Anthony church / Danny Sleath partnership would be great.
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I think he needs an energetic ball winner in the midfield with him, lets face it he is not the right age for running around like a man possessed.
An Anthony church / Danny Sleath partnership would be great.
At 27 he should still have plenty in the tank.
I don't think there's anything nailed on with Chapman staying yet. He has been offered a deal, so has Jay.
He may we'll stay. But there with be other clubs interested too.
His wiki page (career) is well worth a look. He has plenty of history of been offered new deals by League 2 & Conference clubs but turning them down for other offers.
As TTT said his role was never going to be glamorous , considering the mess we were in when he arrived. Holding midfield roles rarely catch the eye but he did a good job for us , protected the back four, organised & helped us keep our shape. In a midfield short of experience & confidence he was a talker & a leader - exactly what we lacking.
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Will be interesting to see if Hilliard stays or goes? Murray said before Xmas that he was a "real talent".
He shows in flashes that he's skillful & a scorer of spectacular goals. He's definitely an enigma who goes AWOL to often. Can AM get any more out of him, would he be more effective in a more advanced role. Or should he be on his way ?
I would go for Hilliard as the better choice to keep over Chapman, who has failed to live up to his billing of 'best midfielder in this league'. Lewis could still progress, whereas could Chapman ? All we can do is trust the managers judgement until we see how next season pans out, from then on, no excuses.
I think Chapman could be the surprise next season with a full pre season and fitness levels up. After watching him this season were do think his biggest weaknesses are?
i think it's been unfair criticism. the bloke gets bigged up by the manager and then is expected to drop straight into a team that's been losing and orchestrate a massive upturn. not a real expectation in my opinion. next season will be a much better judge of how good or otherwise he really is.
Then, it must be the managers fault then for wrongly bigging him up ?? Guess it would be fair to say that the criticism here should be shared between a player that has failed to live up to his billing, and the manager who gave him this said billing. I hope you are right and that he will improve next season.
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Will be interesting to see if Hilliard stays or goes? Murray said before Xmas that he was a "real talent".
He shows in flashes that he's skillful & a scorer of spectacular goals. He's definitely an enigma who goes AWOL to often. Can AM get any more out of him, would he be more effective in a more advanced role. Or should he be on his way ?
I would go for Hilliard as the better choice to keep over Chapman, who has failed to live up to his billing of 'best midfielder in this league'. Lewis could still progress, whereas could Chapman ? All we can do is trust the managers judgement until we see how next season pans out, from then on, no excuses.
I think Chapman could be the surprise next season with a full pre season and fitness levels up. After watching him this season were do think his biggest weaknesses are?
i think it's been unfair criticism. the bloke gets bigged up by the manager and then is expected to drop straight into a team that's been losing and orchestrate a massive upturn. not a real expectation in my opinion. next season will be a much better judge of how good or otherwise he really is.
Then, it must be the managers fault then for wrongly bigging him up ?? Guess it would be fair to say that the criticism here should be shared between a player that has failed to live up to his billing, and the manager who gave him this said billing. I hope you are right and that he will improve next season.
I have to agree about the manager's comments being the problem. IMO, AM would have been better off seeing how he fitted and played in before labelling him "the best...". To me it put a highlight and target directly onto his shoulders. Now i'm not saying he is best midfielder we've ever had, and IMO he's having issues picking up the pace of the game, but i think AM's comments automatically make it harder for him. At the end of the day, if he isn't up to it, then time will tell, but from a winning team perspective, lets hope not.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but all of the players released so far (apart from the loans returning to their parent clubs) have been Dennis Greene signings. I'm not convinced that all of Murray's own signings pulled any trees up, so it does worry me a little bit that all of his own men still seem to be here. If we've true play-off ambitions for next season then we need a manager who isn't going to show favouritism to his own signings - putting the Adam Chapman debate to one side, has Colby Bishop really done enough during his games for us to indicate that he is the required standard?
Yes all of the players released so far were DG signings. However, there will be no favouritism from Murray to anybody. He will do whatever is best for BUFC. The players he brought in late season were tasked to keep us up! At that stage of the season you are severely limited as to what players are available.
AM said on Saturday Eve that most of the Squad would go. He will be ruthless & would have no qualms letting any player go once the survival job was done. As regards Chapman staying cos they are pals - nonsense! Murray's much to professional for that. He had no problem releasing Chapman from Mansfield last September.
The vital test in football is points on the board , in Adams first 7 games in charge with the team mainly Greene signings we collected 11 points . equal to 66 points a season .
With the arrival of Adam Chapman for the last 15 games of the season we collected 15 points , equal to 42 points a season .
Maybe Champs next year can explain how with Chapman in the team we had a fairly dramatic drop in points return , as opposed to a team containing Greenes dross .?
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11 points from any 7 games leaves 105 points to play for so it would always be tough to say what would happen in the other 35 games. Just as 15 points from 15 games doesn't reflect what's gone on points wise in the previous 27 games.
For any team you would also have to consider it's opposition. In Murray's first seven games we played gboro twice & BPA. of the next 15 games we played the top 9 clubs in the league.
For me the shoring up of the team began when Batch came in at centre half along side Josh Rob with Gatter holding midfield. Gatter did well for half a dozen games then Murray went for experience & brought Chapman in.
I've never referred to Greene's dross or looked at the team as being composed of two parties: Greene signings v Murray's players. It's divisive but we all know it's going to continue.
As BUFC fans there are likely to be 3 camps: those who just want the best for the club. Those who are gonna to continue to be angry at DG's departure & The Murray fans.
We had 3 excellent seasons with DG. In that time he only had to replace 3-4 players each season & the signings were excellent. When he lost most of the squad last June he was tested. 13 or so signings & the budget pushed to the max. The realists saw it as a massive rebuilding job.
Many saw Greene as being hounded out. His housing benefits do turned fans against him & the knobhead slant. If he could have shunned social media & avoided personal spats with fans he may have got a fairer shot this season. But the social media war was ramped up by both parties & it was evident he was losing heart in the job.
I hope as a loyal fan base we can Unite behind the boys this season. Of course there's gonna be a comparison of managers. Murray is in a very similar position to what Greene was last year after another exodus.
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11 points from any 7 games leaves 105 points to play for so it would always be tough to say what would happen in the other 35 games. Just as 15 points from 15 games doesn't reflect what's gone on points wise in the previous 27 games.
For any team you would also have to consider it's opposition. In Murray's first seven games we played gboro twice & BPA. of the next 15 games we played the top 9 clubs in the league.
For me the shoring up of the team began when Batch came in at centre half along side Josh Rob with Gatter holding midfield. Gatter did well for half a dozen games then Murray went for experience & brought Chapman in.
I've never referred to Greene's dross or looked at the team as being composed of two parties: Greene signings v Murray's players. It's divisive but we all know it's going to continue.
As BUFC fans there are likely to be 3 camps: those who just want the best for the club. Those who are gonna to continue to be angry at DG's departure & The Murray fans.
We had 3 excellent seasons with DG. In that time he only had to replace 3-4 players each season & the signings were excellent. When he lost most of the squad last June he was tested. 13 or so signings & the budget pushed to the max. The realists saw it as a massive rebuilding job.
Many saw Greene as being hounded out. His housing benefits do turned fans against him & the knobhead slant. If he could have shunned social media & avoided personal spats with fans he may have got a fairer shot this season. But the social media war was ramped up by both parties & it was evident he was losing heart in the job.
I hope as a loyal fan base we can Unite behind the boys this season. Of course there's gonna be a comparison of managers. Murray is in a very similar position to what Greene was last year after another exodus.
A longish response Cny to my request on the performance of the team with v without Adam Chapman .
You have your opinion on the team DG left but I considered it dross compared to the teams he put out the previous 3 seasons .
I have no interest in , nor want to hear scandal about what managers /players do/or do not do in their private lives .
I have had much abuse over the years backing managers , if you refer back to AM arrival thread you will note he had my backing .
I only wanted a response to actual games played that I listed , not speculation on games that might have been .
Can you put your finger on why ?, in AMs first 7 games the team obtained 11 points , inc games against P/O candidates Stockport and Tamworth and Curzon who came to YS on the back of some outstanding cup wins .
Why after the arrival of AC did we only obtain 15 points in 15 games including home defeat against bottom club Alty and relegation candidates Nuneaton, other matches involved relegation candidates Worcester , Alfreton, and Telford and concluded with a good spanking from a now poor Curzon team . Doesn't look to me that he lifted the teams game .
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I think u need to look at the fixtures again GHM re Murray's first 7 games.
We lost to tamworh & Stockport. Hilliard scored 2 corkers v curzon + 4 PTS off gboro + 3 BPA.
Of the 14 games Chapman played 9 were v top 9 in the league. (He missed brackley)
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Well AM should be about to get in the new signings for 2017/18 , if what he said at the forum was right .
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We just all need to move on,and put last season down as a non event.
Things have happened that were just strange or pure bad luck.
The hate campaign waged on social media against DG has put a black mark against the club.
We need to learn from that and not let certain individuals get away with it, I was sat near this individual and what he said was disgusting and vile, if it had been in the street he would have been arrested.
I think Adam Chapman did a good job, and I hope he stays with us.
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Its always hard to judge the abilities of a player from the AM of the season gone, The team he put together was a team of players made up of players he thinks can play the way he wants to going forward next season and players he needed to pull the club out of trouble, so some could say it was a team of mis match that was put together to complete the job with one eye on some of those for next season.. If chapman stays it be better to judge him in the full team that AM builds to play the style he wants going forward and not the style he was forced to play to get us out the rut we was in
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I think u need to look at the fixtures again GHM re Murray's first 7 games.
We lost to tamworh & Stockport. Hilliard scored 2 corkers v curzon + 4 PTS off gboro + 3 BPA.
Of the 14 games Chapman played 9 were v top 9 in the league. (He missed brackley)
How dare you come onto patter with facts. Disgusting
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I think u need to look at the fixtures again GHM re Murray's first 7 games.
We lost to tamworh & Stockport. Hilliard scored 2 corkers v curzon + 4 PTS off gboro + 3 BPA.
Of the 14 games Chapman played 9 were v top 9 in the league. (He missed brackley)
How dare you come onto patter with facts. Disgusting
Good point. Facts don't mean anything:
5 out of 6 Scientists think Russian Roulette is safe.
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I think u need to look at the fixtures again GHM re Murray's first 7 games.
We lost to tamworh & Stockport. Hilliard scored 2 corkers v curzon + 4 PTS off gboro + 3 BPA.
Of the 14 games Chapman played 9 were v top 9 in the league. (He missed brackley)
I did look at the fixtures Cny .
Sorry for missing Chapman did not play v Brackley game .
The amended stats say with Chapman it was 14 games and 14 points = 42 points season .
Murrays first 7 games obtained 11 points = 62 points season .
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I think u need to look at the fixtures again GHM re Murray's first 7 games.
We lost to tamworh & Stockport. Hilliard scored 2 corkers v curzon + 4 PTS off gboro + 3 BPA.
Of the 14 games Chapman played 9 were v top 9 in the league. (He missed brackley)
How dare you come onto patter with facts. Disgusting
Good point. Facts don't mean anything:
5 out of 6 Scientists think Russian Roulette is safe.
I can guarantee you wouldn't want to be no6
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Next season is a fresh start. New team, all his own men, we will see how it goes in August.
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Next season is a fresh start. New team, all is own men, we will see how it goes in August.
That's all we can do now , wait and see . Could do with an early impressive signing to encourage fans to renew season tickets .
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My mate is a Posh fan, he told me they're looking for a keeper. Some bright spark came up with the idea of signing John Ruddy from Norwich, apparently he's been released. He told the bloke, yes, then we'd not have any money left to get anyone else in. ;D ;D