Pilgrims' Patter
The Forum => The B-Ark => Topic started by: amberarmy on June 24, 2012, 10:29:17 PM
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if the sort of football we've had to endure from this england side throughout the tournament is typical of what we can expect under hodgson then sack him now!!!!
don't know about you guys but i want england to succeed by outplaying their opponents and not parking the bus hoping to grab a lucky breakaway goal
ok against france i can understand the cautious approach but they continued that style against the mighty nations of sweden and ukraine and yes...we may have won but it was hardly getting you off your seat cheering on the great football
discuss
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You need to be a bit more positive! C'mon 2014 X ;)
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You need to be a bit more positive! C'mon 2014 X ;)
perhaps if the team showed more positivity then maybe i will
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AmberArmy Roy is still unbeaten! Keep him and have faith.
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Facts are we'll have to be very very lucky to win anything (or even reach a final) playing as we do at present. A lot has been made about Germany totally rethinking how they played the game just after the turn of the Millennium. Personally think we need something similar, cannot see any manager making much difference until we learn how to keep the ball as well as the top 8-10 sides (which we are not whatever the FIFA rankings say).
As far as Roy and the current crop of players are concerned I think they did well to get out of the group as in every game we had to soak up pressure and ride our luck. Italy gave us a footballing lesson (first 25 mins apart) and Germany would have destroyed us had we won those pens. We are never going to win tournaments hitting long balls to Carroll.
Until we pass the ball better quarter finals is the best we can hope for IMO as the better teams will always out-pass us and us chasing a game for so long leaves players with nothing left.
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if the sort of football we've had to endure from this england side throughout the tournament is typical of what we can expect under hodgson then sack him now!!!!
don't know about you guys but i want england to succeed by outplaying their opponents and not parking the bus hoping to grab a lucky breakaway goal
ok against france i can understand the cautious approach but they continued that style against the mighty nations of sweden and ukraine and yes...we may have won but it was hardly getting you off your seat cheering on the great football
discuss
We're not good enough at present to outplay our opponents, we tried that vs Germany at the World Cup and got smashed. It's clear we need a Pirlo, a playmaker.
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Did Roy get the substitutions wrong last night?
As the game progressed it became clearer that we'd be the happier side if the game went to penalties. If they'd still been on the pitch, wouldn't Milner, Parker and Welbeck all have been likely penalty takers?
Ashley Young had a poor tournament throughout. I'm not sure he should have even started against the Italians, but in any case he should have gone off ahead of Milner. A poor penalty summed up his tournament. When you lean back whilst taking a penalty the ball will always rise. And Young was so lent back so far that he was lucky the ball didn't completely clear the crossbar. No excuses, players at the top level (especially forwards) should know better.
No blame on Ashley Cole - he hit the target and made the goalkeeper make a save. That's all you can ask for.
Apart from a header from Newsham-range, Rooney's contribution to the tournamet (from open play) amounted to very little. He wasn't fit. Welbeck on the other hand was probably our best player in the tournament, and his movement and work rate gave defenders something to think about. As extra time approached, it should have been Rooney that made way for Carroll and not Welbeck.
And then there was the odd substitution of Jordan Henderson for Scott Parker. Did Henderson actually touch the ball after he came on? I'm not convinced he's Premiership class, let alone England class.
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if the sort of football we've had to endure from this england side throughout the tournament is typical of what we can expect under hodgson then sack him now!!!!
don't know about you guys but i want england to succeed by outplaying their opponents and not parking the bus hoping to grab a lucky breakaway goal
ok against france i can understand the cautious approach but they continued that style against the mighty nations of sweden and ukraine and yes...we may have won but it was hardly getting you off your seat cheering on the great football
discuss
We're not good enough at present to outplay our opponents, we tried that vs Germany at the World Cup and got smashed. It's clear we need a Pirlo, a playmaker.
i'm not so naive that i think we have the best players in the world but we had a good enough team to have a go at what was a very ordinary italian side (except pirlo) but boring hodgson had the team sitting back and defending deep allowing the italians greater possession which tired our guys out chasing the ball so when it did finally go to penalties our guys were physically shot of energy and totally lacking confidence
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Did Roy get the substitutions wrong last night?
As the game progressed it became clearer that we'd be the happier side if the game went to penalties. If they'd still been on the pitch, wouldn't Milner, Parker and Welbeck all have been likely penalty takers?
Ashley Young had a poor tournament throughout. I'm not sure he should have even started against the Italians, but in any case he should have gone off ahead of Milner. A poor penalty summed up his tournament. When you lean back whilst taking a penalty the ball will always rise. And Young was so lent back so far that he was lucky the ball didn't completely clear the crossbar. No excuses, players at the top level (especially forwards) should know better.
No blame on Ashley Cole - he hit the target and made the goalkeeper make a save. That's all you can ask for.
Apart from a header from Newsham-range, Rooney's contribution to the tournamet (from open play) amounted to very little. He wasn't fit. Welbeck on the other hand was probably our best player in the tournament, and his movement and work rate gave defenders something to think about. As extra time approached, it should have been Rooney that made way for Carroll and not Welbeck.
And then there was the odd substitution of Jordan Henderson for Scott Parker. Did Henderson actually touch the ball after he came on? I'm not convinced he's Premiership class, let alone England class.
I think most of our "in form" players didnt get enough time on the pitch, Walcott (surprisingly), Carroll and Chamberlain all should have played ahead of Milner and Young, who were both atrocious. And Glen Johnson should have taken a penalty.
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The reality is we are no good enough , in the game I was watching at one stage the stats said 300 England passes reached their target , 700 Italian passes reached their target .
Takes no debating to conclude England were outclassed , while the Prem League is
overloaded with foriegn players things will not change .
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The back five all should take credit for effectively getting us that far. For all the ranting and raving Spayne Rd style I hear at Wembley about Johnson being not good enough, poor defensively and a waste of a shirt. He did well and was one of our better performers in the tournament. We didn't miss Rio because Lescott did well and although detestable as people, Cole and Terry were superb throughout.
There is always a doubt over Rooney at the major events and he hasn't performed for a long time. Always unfit in or before a tournament and never a game changer.
As for Roy, he got the best out of a bad bunch, give him another shot and hope he now leaves behind Lampard, Rio etc for a more youthful build to the future approach. We need a complete midfield re-build and to blood some young strikers. We'll no doubt breeze qualification and be back to square one in two years time.
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if the sort of football we've had to endure from this england side throughout the tournament is typical of what we can expect under hodgson then sack him now!!!!
don't know about you guys but i want england to succeed by outplaying their opponents and not parking the bus hoping to grab a lucky breakaway goal
ok against france i can understand the cautious approach but they continued that style against the mighty nations of sweden and ukraine and yes...we may have won but it was hardly getting you off your seat cheering on the great football
discuss
We're not good enough at present to outplay our opponents, we tried that vs Germany at the World Cup and got smashed. It's clear we need a Pirlo, a playmaker.
Someone like... Jack Wilshere?
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you could have the best playmaker in midfield and the hottest striker on the planet in your team but if your manager tells you all to get behind the ball and defend you're not going to win the games against the bigger teams around
like i said it was a very ordinary italian side which on paper we could have beat but our tactics allowed them to dominate possession and dictate the game
if only hodgson had ordered them to attack the dodgy looking italian defence we might be looking forward to thursday against the germans
i feel the media are focusing too much on the fact we lost another penalty shootout rather than highlighting the negative tactics we deployed throughout the tournament
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Sad to admit but we were outclassed by "a very ordinary italian side "
Every England manager has been made the scapegoat over the years , the real problem is we have not got the players to make a top team .
The FA have got to move out of the dark ages and get a top national coaching system to improve
our skills. Foreign players permitted to play for Prem league teams must be reduced .
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Outclassed? Yes.
But the key thing is we gave ourselves half a chance of nicking a goal on the break or if we could hold our nerve winning on penalties.
I'd rather give ourselves half a chance like we did than getting smashed like we did against the Germans in 2010
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Outclassed? Yes.
But the key thing is we gave ourselves half a chance of nicking a goal on the break or if we could hold our nerve winning on penalties.
I'd rather give ourselves half a chance like we did than getting smashed like we did against the Germans in 2010
+1, sometimes you have to just admit you're not good enough and take you chances with whatever you can get. For doing that bloody mindedly, I salute Roy.
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Outclassed? Yes.
But the key thing is we gave ourselves half a chance of nicking a goal on the break or if we could hold our nerve winning on penalties.
I'd rather give ourselves half a chance like we did than getting smashed like we did against the Germans in 2010
+2 For me , Roy got this group of players as far as possible for a limited team that didn't have a manager six weeks ago. Until schools football upwards is changed , and passing and holding the ball become the focus we will struggle to keep up with the Germany and Spain's of the footballing world. We tried to play attacking football against Germany in the World Cup and were lucky to lose 4-2 ahem 4-1, even managing to concede one of the goals from a hoof out from the German keeper! Our defence in the Euro's was much better organised . This tournament has been much better than the last World Cup, better games and no Vuvuzelas !
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Hodgson did well and got the players organised but we reached our limitations and subsequently we went out when we faced a top ten side who were techniquiely better. At some point the whole thought process and philosophy behind the way we play and run the game in this country has to change though if we are going to beat sides like Italy at major tournaments. For me it is fantastic to see that this transition has already started at BUFC under Jason Lee. Mid January the 'penny dropped' and JL realised that for all the effort and passion shown by the likes of himself and Kevin Austin they were no longer good enough and the long ball system wasn't going to be successful long term. Boston started playing 4 3 3, dropped the big old men and weren't afraid to try and play out from the back and try and pass through the opposition. With the old guard dropped JL gave players such as Reed, Stainsfield and Smith a chance and all did ok. Whilst results towards the end of the season were not got performances improved, often with change progress is stalled until the new style is mastered. JL has made it clear from day one that he wants to see the whole club going forward NOT just the first team and has installed his ethos into the club. Towards the end of the season the reserves also started playing 4 3 3. It is no coincidence that Germany have several fantastic young players coming through their youth system after rethinking their youth football and for me it is also no coincidence that under Scott and Hurst ZERO players came through our youth or reserve team and it was obvious that they showed no interest in either (not even playing players n the reserves after an injury lay off.) No disrespect intended towards S and H though as they did a good job but were only interesting a short term answer hence didn't intent on hanging around. Under JL Reed has already come through the youths and Ward from the reserves with several young local lads also given an opportunity.
No intention to start another JL debate, just putting into perspective the long term approach that hasn't really been recognised and that the clubs future looks good on the pitch along with the job David Newton is doing off the pitch.
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http://www.midlincs.com/index.php/2-webpages/88-reviewfa (http://www.midlincs.com/index.php/2-webpages/88-reviewfa)
Changes are afoot, the midlands league has a piece on it. Not sure I see what it achieves apart from the half way house before kids jump to the big goals.
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Well the way that semi-final panned out has pretty much completely justified Hodgson's approach...
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Well the way that semi-final panned out has pretty much completely justified Hodgson's approach...
in what way?
do you think the germans would have preferred to sit deep and put eleven men behind the ball and hope they get to penalties
i say again i'd rather see us go out of a tournament giving it a damned good go and maybe face a small thrashing than play boring defensive football making no realistic attempt to score and hope we may win on penalties (despite the fact that our record in penalty shootouts is appalling)
it may be the end of the tournament for the germans but at least they can go home knowing that they tried to attack and score against all their opponents and bar italy did a pretty good job of it too
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The Germans were thought of as the most potent attacking force in the tournament before last night. They played that game and Italy soundly beat them. If England had tried to do the same thing as the Germans, it would have likely been even worse - we'd have almost certainly gone out by a good few goals in normal time. As it is, we got to the point where we were ahead on penalties and briefly favourites to go through. I think I know which method gave us a better chance of progressing.
Hodgson is fully aware of our players' obvious limitations and played to them accordingly. Just because we're not playing an expansive style doesn't mean we haven't "had a go" - I reckon it was the most organised, committed and hard working tournament showing from England in quite a few years.
Chelsea could have tried to play a bit of football in the Nou Camp against Barcelona. They probably wouldn't have a Champions League title to their name if they did, and I think I know which option most of their fans prefer.
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The Germans were thought of as the most potent attacking force in the tournament before last night. They played that game and Italy soundly beat them. If England had tried to do the same thing as the Germans, it would have likely been even worse - we'd have almost certainly gone out by a good few goals in normal time. As it is, we got to the point where we were ahead on penalties and briefly favourites to go through. I think I know which method gave us a better chance of progressing.
Hodgson is fully aware of our players' obvious limitations and played to them accordingly. Just because we're not playing an expansive style doesn't mean we haven't "had a go" - I reckon it was the most organised, committed and hard working tournament showing from England in quite a few years.
Chelsea could have tried to play a bit of football in the Nou Camp against Barcelona. They probably wouldn't have a Champions League title to their name if they did, and I think I know which option most of their fans prefer.
Yes but Chelski only did it in one game, we were negative in all our games.
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The Germans were thought of as the most potent attacking force in the tournament before last night. They played that game and Italy soundly beat them. If England had tried to do the same thing as the Germans, it would have likely been even worse - we'd have almost certainly gone out by a good few goals in normal time. As it is, we got to the point where we were ahead on penalties and briefly favourites to go through. I think I know which method gave us a better chance of progressing.
Hodgson is fully aware of our players' obvious limitations and played to them accordingly. Just because we're not playing an expansive style doesn't mean we haven't "had a go" - I reckon it was the most organised, committed and hard working tournament showing from England in quite a few years.
Chelsea could have tried to play a bit of football in the Nou Camp against Barcelona. They probably wouldn't have a Champions League title to their name if they did, and I think I know which option most of their fans prefer.
Yes but Chelski only did it in one game, we were negative in all our games.
Did you not see the semi final?
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The Germans were thought of as the most potent attacking force in the tournament before last night. They played that game and Italy soundly beat them. If England had tried to do the same thing as the Germans, it would have likely been even worse - we'd have almost certainly gone out by a good few goals in normal time. As it is, we got to the point where we were ahead on penalties and briefly favourites to go through. I think I know which method gave us a better chance of progressing.
Hodgson is fully aware of our players' obvious limitations and played to them accordingly. Just because we're not playing an expansive style doesn't mean we haven't "had a go" - I reckon it was the most organised, committed and hard working tournament showing from England in quite a few years.
Chelsea could have tried to play a bit of football in the Nou Camp against Barcelona. They probably wouldn't have a Champions League title to their name if they did, and I think I know which option most of their fans prefer.
limitations?
our team contained highly paid and skillful players who would almost certainly get into most (if not all) of the top teams in europe and have a major impact because those teams would encourage those players to play to their strengths?
does rooney really play his best football trying to man mark (pirlo)?
they say roy will have learnt something from this tournament - well i hope the lesson is that you may overcome relative minnows of football playing a boring defensive style but if you wanna beat the better teams of europe and the world you've gotta beat them at their own game (ie: have a go and attack)
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our team contained highly paid and skillful players who would almost certainly get into most (if not all) of the top teams in europe and have a major impact because those teams would encourage those players to play to their strengths?
Disagree. For most of our players, hard working and competent is the best you could describe them as on the international stage.
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Conclusion...we are shit!
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Conclusion...we are shit!
Conclusion... You're a wind up merchant.
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Nationality is a mere geographical accident (or at least it should be to those of you who have never got out of Boston).
So why support such a rubbish team full of overpaid feckless yobs who seem not to be able to keep their hands off other people's girlfriends/wives?
To those of you who did not pay much attention at school the "?" is an interrogation mark and means the phrase preceding is a question (as opposed to a statement). :bunny
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If my BGS records are correct, you are Mark Isaac (1G) who borrowed my copy of the "Silver Sword " by Ian Serrailler on 14/9/76 and have never returned it. Scandalous behaviour , what would Kenny Whittle say ?
(And I hasten to add, you struggled at reading aloud , if my memory serves me correctly, hence you shouldn't be lecturing people about the in's and outs of the English language).
I would be most grateful if you would return my copy at a home game this coming season.......... on the other hand, pigs might fly .
(Sorry to have left this issue 36 years, but I was worried you may post a photo of my house on the internet if I upset you).
Dave
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If my BGS records are correct, you are Mark Isaac (1G) who borrowed my copy of the "Silver Sword " by Ian Serrailler on 14/9/76 and have never returned it. Scandalous behaviour , what would Kenny Whittle say ?
(And I hasten to add, you struggled at reading aloud , if my memory serves me correctly, hence you shouldn't be lecturing people about the in's and outs of the English language).
I would be most grateful if you would return my copy at a home game this coming season.......... on the other hand, pigs might fly .
(Sorry to have left this issue 36 years, but I was worried you may post a photo of my house on the internet if I upset you).
Dave
Post of the month award :D
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If my BGS records are correct, you are Mark Isaac (1G) who borrowed my copy of the "Silver Sword " by Ian Serrailler on 14/9/76 and have never returned it. Scandalous behaviour , what would Kenny Whittle say ?
(And I hasten to add, you struggled at reading aloud , if my memory serves me correctly, hence you shouldn't be lecturing people about the in's and outs of the English language).
I would be most grateful if you would return my copy at a home game this coming season.......... on the other hand, pigs might fly .
(Sorry to have left this issue 36 years, but I was worried you may post a photo of my house on the internet if I upset you).
Dave
I am sure that whoever stole your book Dave must be a cad and a bounder. Why did you not ask for it back or return whatever erotica you may have traded (I say that knowing what some pubescent boys can get up to) and why wait so long and then challenge someone who you may or may not actually know on a public forum? Were you one of those quiet, droopy-eyed quiet ones whose Mummy still walked them to school?
I suggest you report the theft to the local police as soon as possible and bring charges. This chap sounds like he needs to learn a lesson. :bunny :)
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If my BGS records are correct, you are Mark Isaac (1G) who borrowed my copy of the "Silver Sword " by Ian Serrailler on 14/9/76 and have never returned it. Scandalous behaviour , what would Kenny Whittle say ?
(And I hasten to add, you struggled at reading aloud , if my memory serves me correctly, hence you shouldn't be lecturing people about the in's and outs of the English language).
I would be most grateful if you would return my copy at a home game this coming season.......... on the other hand, pigs might fly .
(Sorry to have left this issue 36 years, but I was worried you may post a photo of my house on the internet if I upset you).
Dave
Brilliant!
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If my BGS records are correct, you are Mark Isaac (1G) who borrowed my copy of the "Silver Sword " by Ian Serrailler on 14/9/76 and have never returned it. Scandalous behaviour , what would Kenny Whittle say ?
(And I hasten to add, you struggled at reading aloud , if my memory serves me correctly, hence you shouldn't be lecturing people about the in's and outs of the English language).
I would be most grateful if you would return my copy at a home game this coming season.......... on the other hand, pigs might fly .
(Sorry to have left this issue 36 years, but I was worried you may post a photo of my house on the internet if I upset you).
Dave
I am sure that whoever stole your book Dave must be a cad and a bounder. Why did you not ask for it back or return whatever erotica you may have traded (I say that knowing what some pubescent boys can get up to) and why wait so long and then challenge someone who you may or may not actually know on a public forum? Were you one of those quiet, droopy-eyed quiet ones whose Mummy still walked them to school?
I suggest you report the theft to the local police as soon as possible and bring charges. This chap sounds like he needs to learn a lesson. :bunny :)
Don't you remember reading that particular book in the 1st year ? Did they all make it back to the safety of Switzerland ? , In order to get this thread back on topic I along with England in the Euro's will have to accept that possession is 9/10's of the law.