Pilgrims' Patter
The Forum => The B-Ark => Topic started by: Bob Lee on November 15, 2011, 08:00:36 PM
-
Alright Ken, delete this post.
But the way I feel right now, I hope enough people read this before you remove it.
I have just come back from seeing my 82 year old mother in law sobbing.
Mum and dad in law went shopping in Asda today and a polish tw*t stole my mum in law's purse.
No doubt where and when it was took and who took it.
Police are now viewing CCTV cameras
I have always said give them a chance, but I now think differently. All you that say it could have been just as likely to have been an English person that took it, I say go down King Street and console my dear old Mum in law.
I say if they do not work send them back >:(
-
Sorry to hear about it Bob! >:(
-
Out of interest:
Eastern European migrants have much higher employment figures than locals, and are on average better educated. They are also estimated to contribute much, much more in taxes than they cost in benefits and use of public services (as opposed to locals who are typically a net cost to the government).
I wouldn't expect these actual facts to influence the views of many Bostonians, however.
-
Out of interest:
Eastern European migrants have much higher employment figures than locals, and are on average better educated. They are also estimated to contribute much, much more in taxes than they cost in benefits and use of public services (as opposed to locals who are typically a net cost to the government).
I wouldn't expect these actual facts to influence the views of many Bostonians, however.
Tell that to my old mum in law >:(
-
Out of interest:
Eastern European migrants have much higher employment figures than locals, and are on average better educated. They are also estimated to contribute much, much more in taxes than they cost in benefits and use of public services (as opposed to locals who are typically a net cost to the government).
I wouldn't expect these actual facts to influence the views of many Bostonians, however.
Are you local? This is a local town for local people. Nothing for you here!
-
Its like anything, there's good and bad.........99% of the migrants are good honest family people who get on with their lives like the rest of us.
Sadly the tiny minority that are a nuisance spoil it for the rest, just like in the 70's and 80's when as a group we were all tarred as football hooligans just for attending games.
-
Its like anything, there's good and bad.........99% of the migrants are good honest family people who get on with their lives like the rest of us.
Sadly the tiny minority that are a nuisance spoil it for the rest, just like in the 70's and 80's when as a group we were all tarred as football hooligans just for attending games.
You only have to look in the local paper, not many English names there.
Adam THAT IS A FACT last week in the Standard 5 English 11 Polish take that as a percentage??????
-
I think would defend anybody Bob!
-
Adam you forgot to mention what it cost the tax payer for translators at the Pilgrim hospital the police and the courts . Not to forget child benefit sent to eastern europe . Hope non of us get hit by a pissed up pole.
Best wishes to your mum in law BOB .
-
That's terrible news Bob-what sort of scum does that to an elderly lady.Best wishes to your mum-in-law,i hope she can get over it soon.
-
Adam you forgot to mention what it cost the tax payer for translators at the Pilgrim hospital the police and the courts . Not to forget child benefit sent to eastern europe . Hope non of us get hit by a pissed up pole.
Best wishes to your mum in law BOB .
Afraid not, the figures came from a pretty comprehensive analysis.*
Just thought I'd remove the emotion from this and point out that most of the arguments people throw around against immigration are complete myths. Crime? I'd say stories in the Standard are a less than scientific approach. Obviously Boston has seen very high levels of immigration for its size - and only a fool would deny this has created social problem, partly as a result of the actions of a minority but worsened by the xenophobic attitude of many locals who will always blow anti social behaviour of immigrants out of proportion. But these need to be remedied by social schemes, not the nuclear approach of trying to stop immigration.
I see that some people here have edited their posts to be much more subtle than just saying "send them back!", so maybe it has done some good. ;)
*For anyone that's interested... it's probably a pretty dry read for anyone not into economics: Dustmann, Frattini, Halls, 2004 - Assessing the Fiscal Costs and Benefits of A8 Migration to the UK.
-
I say Hang'em all !!! bound to find the culprit eventually , perhaps
-
Adam, which department of the governments pro immigration propaganda machine are you working for, anybody can throw statistics out till their blue in the face, doesn't alter the fact that we have serious problems in our town. Now you've probably not experienced your relations being mugged as their walking home, a work colleague being knifed for his mobile phone, my wife being harassed as she's walking through town, my son nearly being knocked down by one of the countless eastern european drink drivers, I could go on but it will probably sail straight over your head. Strange thing is i've only encountered these incidents since the invasion of our town, hey maybe i've been unlucky and only come across the "1%"? that give them all a bad name. Best wishes to your'e mum in law bob, hope they catch the bastard, its probably the 1% that I and many others keep coming across.
-
Adam, which department of the governments pro immigration propaganda machine are you working for, anybody can throw statistics out till their blue in the face, doesn't alter the fact that we have serious problems in our town. Now you've probably not experienced your relations being mugged as their walking home, a work colleague being knifed for his mobile phone, my wife being harassed as she's walking through town, my son nearly being knocked down by one of the countless eastern european drink drivers, I could go on but it will probably sail straight over your head. Strange thing is i've only encountered these incidents since the invasion of our town, hey maybe i've been unlucky and only come across the "1%"? that give them all a bad name. Best wishes to your'e mum in law bob, hope they catch the bastard, its probably the 1% that I and many others keep coming across.
Thankyou Steviemas, but I think Master Hildred is more having a pop at me, he tends to,silly boy.
-
Of course mugging an old lady is disgusting. But just because one Polish person did it, they're all scum??? ::)
-
Hi Bob, Hope your mum in law is okay. Are you sure the person was Polish, could have been Russian, Latvian,or many of the others. I have met many of the Polish and others who are really nice friendly people, but incidents like this really need stamping out, also if they are English nationals.
-
Now you've probably not experienced your relations being mugged as their walking home, a work colleague being knifed for his mobile phone, my wife being harassed as she's walking through town,
Yes, I have experienced that. My wife had a knife held to her throat at a cash point in the Market Place and forced to withdraw £200. That was perpetrated by a local home grown scum bag. My cousin was knocked to the ground, her leg badly broken and her handbag stolen. That also was perpetrated by two local home grown scum bags.
-
Of course mugging an old lady is disgusting. But just because one Polish person did it, they're all scum??? ::)
Perhaps the thread title is misleading. But the the Pole that did it certainly fits the title well and for that I make no excuses.
-
The ones that don't work and the ones who cause trouble should be sent back, the hard working ones who don't cause trouble I have no problems with
-
Adam from your response it appears you have access to figures . why not answer my question on costs of traslators and benifits sent abroard .? Also tell us how many pensioners are moving in and drawing their pensions over here.
Enlighten us to what benifits we whould be entitled to if we moved over to eastern europe .
Also what have you to say to the hard working locals on here who have had their wages drasticly reduced by the labour market being flooded by immigrants.?
-
Sorry Bob , forgot to ask how mum-in-law is today .
-
Of course mugging an old lady is disgusting. But just because one Polish person did it, they're all scum??? ::)
Perhaps the thread title is misleading. But the the Pole that did it certainly fits the title well and for that I make no excuses.
It's not just the thread title is it? You also said: "I have always said give them a chance, but I now think differently."
That infers that you're tarring all the Poles with the same brush.
Look, anyone who mugs an old lady is scum. There's no need to bring his Polish nationality into it. By that reckoning, there's plenty of 'English scum' running amok on the streets each and every day.
You said the Poles should be sent back. Well, where do we send the English scum???
-
Everyone should deal with their own scum . Send the non workers back.
-
Adam, which department of the governments pro immigration propaganda machine are you working for, anybody can throw statistics out till their blue in the face, doesn't alter the fact that we have serious problems in our town. Now you've probably not experienced your relations being mugged as their walking home, a work colleague being knifed for his mobile phone, my wife being harassed as she's walking through town, my son nearly being knocked down by one of the countless eastern european drink drivers, I could go on but it will probably sail straight over your head. Strange thing is i've only encountered these incidents since the invasion of our town, hey maybe i've been unlucky and only come across the "1%"? that give them all a bad name. Best wishes to your'e mum in law bob, hope they catch the bastard, its probably the 1% that I and many others keep coming across.
Statistics are otherwise known as 'facts', usually a pretty decent basis for any argument. Not working for any government department, just choosing to look at these things with some perspective as opposed to trying to reach some consensus based on who's had what done to them. People are always going to emphasise what 'foreigners' did because it's a hot topic, the things that happened to Shoddys Lanes' relative are less likely to be mentioned. I wouldn't doubt that immigrants have higher crime rates than the overall population - simply because the proportion of them who are young and male tends to be very high and that is the group most likely to offend regardless of nationality. Obviously my sympathies to anyone who's suffered crime, but I've always made it pretty obvious that I've been talking about immigration overall.
Adam from your response it appears you have access to figures . why not answer my question on costs of traslators and benifits sent abroard .? Also tell us how many pensioners are moving in and drawing their pensions over here.
Enlighten us to what benifits we whould be entitled to if we moved over to eastern europe .
Also what have you to say to the hard working locals on here who have had their wages drasticly reduced by the labour market being flooded by immigrants.?
I don't have any special access to figures, I just read the report of some very well qualified economists who do research into this area! However, the percentage of Eastern European migrants of pensionable age moving here is tiny, and even then completely irrelevant as they're not entitled to - any hence won't receive - any state pension unless they've been making NI contributions for a significant portion of their live. If we moved to Eastern Europe? I'd guess at very few. Just like how Eastern European migrants are entitled to very little until they've made inward contributions. Why are you raising this - do you really think these studies would just happen to have 'forgotten' about pensions and benefits?!
The effects on the labour market are minimal either way. Given that landwork is inevitably minimum wage, 'hard working locals' will not have had their wages lowered. Unemployment amongst the lowest skilled locals may be likely to increase to some extent but this is offset by the overall gains of a more efficient workforce. There were clearly gaps in the labour supply around here, as vacancies is one of the major determinants as to where migrants moved.
Thankyou Steviemas, but I think Master Hildred is more having a pop at me, he tends to,silly boy.
Don't see where I've had a pop at you at all. Just putting some truths out about the topic you raised.
-
Sorry Bob , forgot to ask how mum-in-law is today .
A lot happier today thanks.
LPRA I see your point, I am not racist and was only in conversation with a fellow poster on here last Saturday in the Pilgrim Lounge.
I stood up for Polish in general. The fact is, it was a guest in this country who stole the purse.
-
Adam as I thought you have not a clue on the financial effect of immigation i.e you fail to produce the figures to back your claims .
Tell us Adam why was the local police mounting a campain targeting foreign drivers recently warning them about drink drivers
"Hard working locals not had wages lowered " confirms what I suspected Adam , you havent a clue what is happening in the real world of Boston .
Many are working for the same pay or less than they were earning ten years ago .
Instead of listening to politicians and academics come and join us in the real world and then you will realise what Boston is about .
-
Sorry to hear about mum in law , I have to agree if they committ a crime send them home a flight is a lot cheaper than jail etc , if they bleet about human rights tell them they should of thought about it before the crime , lots of the villans in the paper it is not there first offence ???
I know we have to accept the workers but why the scum as well, we have plenty of our own scum to deal with .
Migration has always happend it is just the speed and numbers for our small town that is hard to accept . But we can only blame the greed of supermarkets and the people that supply the work force for getting us in to the mess the town is in ??? ???
On a positive note well done to the youth team last night and good luck in the next round ;D
-
Terrible thing to happen to anyone and fully understand the reaction of Bob I would probably feel the same.
Adam you are a local lad now at university studying I believe economics. I think you are being rather immature by writing your posts as though you are speaking from a position of authority, I believe you are a first year student and I understand that everything is exciting, but may I respectfully suggest you buckle down to your studies, after all we need good economists to take over from the present bunch who have put the country in the mire. Economics are enough for you so stick at it and leave politics and Diplomacy alone until you attend the university of life for a few years.
-
Terrible thing to happen to anyone and fully understand the reaction of Bob I would probably feel the same.
Adam you are a local lad now at university studying I believe economics. I think you are being rather immature by writing your posts as though you are speaking from a position of authority, I believe you are a first year student and I understand that everything is exciting, but may I respectfully suggest you buckle down to your studies, after all we need good economists to take over from the present bunch who have put the country in the mire. Economics are enough for you so stick at it and leave politics and Diplomacy alone until you attend the university of life for a few years.
Thank you oxo very well put
-
Wish you had delivered that advice sooner oxo , the same message as I tring to put over to Adam but I lacked your cutting edge and style .
-
I am not racist
Your mother in law has been mugged by persons unknown. Whilst this act is totally despicable - your total maligning of a racial group on the basis that a person of that racial group MAY have been responsible is also despicable....... and makes you a racist whether you like it or not.
-
Amen Ferret
"im not a rascist" is usually followed by a "but" , whoever did it is indeed scum wherever they come from yet the hysterical title of this thread does nothing but increase the stereotyping that followed in numerous posts
much like everyone has a nightmare story about the Pilgrim , doesn't automatically follow that the entire NHS is incompetent
-
Thanks OXO just hope Adam is doing his homework tonight!
Good to see in The Target somebody has been fined for pissing in the street!Not the first and not the last Foreigner from my observations.
Just hope they piss up Adams hedge one day!
-
i think branding bob lee a racist is a little unfair
in moments of anger we are all guilty of saying some unsavoury things as we are so incensed at what has happened to us
after a little time to reflect he is starting to realise that his choice of words could have been better but is still angry towards the polish man who he believes mugged his mother in law
-
Ferret, RamMalc I have never said they are all Scum, just the sh*t who did this.
I may like things in simple terms, and nothing more simple than this DO WRONG, AND DON'T PAY YOUR WAY, SHOULD MEAN DEPORTATION
We are too soft in this country and that is towards our own scum.
Please do not class me as racist, anyone that knows me knows I am not, and I take offence to this.
But what ever the nationality or colour if you do not adhere to the laws of OUR country you should pay.
-
Adam as I thought you have not a clue on the financial effect of immigation i.e you fail to produce the figures to back your claims .
GHM I've been pretty measured about this, trying to reserve judgements and just stick to facts, but there's nothing else to say here other than that you're talking complete crap here. I named the paper that made the estimates, and I'd like to see someone come up with some better figures to use! I'll reiterate - the impact of immigration from Eastern Europe is hugely beneficial for public finances - over 30% more in contributions than costs every single year - compared to residents who are net 'costs' (as shown by the government running deficits for the past few years!). They're much less likely to claim benefits, less likely to live in social housing etc etc. I don't need to provide you with figures, if you're too ignorant to glance over the reference I gave you then you'll have to take my word for it.
Adam you are a local lad now at university studying I believe economics. I think you are being rather immature by writing your posts as though you are speaking from a position of authority, I believe you are a first year student and I understand that everything is exciting, but may I respectfully suggest you buckle down to your studies, after all we need good economists to take over from the present bunch who have put the country in the mire. Economics are enough for you so stick at it and leave politics and Diplomacy alone until you attend the university of life for a few years.
Second year. However it's pretty much irrelevant - I didn't come up with those figures, I just read and acknowledged them! Mel - I'm not under any false sense of authority... For the nth time I'm stating simple facts. I'm not denying there are social problems in Boston, but that's only one small side to the story!
By the way I'd say economics in intrinsically linked to politics. What was the main battle ground in the last election?
Obviously going against the grain with this just leads to having to defend yourself against a pack of people who don't really pay any attention to the detail of what you've actually said. I notice that noone has posted any convincing arguments against the initial things I posted yet, which were just a few simple and interesting truths (as well as inconvenient ones for some) - posted without opinion or judgement.
-
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/15757165.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/15757165.stm)
Just Shake Hands, everything will be fine.
-
Adam you are a young deluded boy . Take on board all of oxo ,s comments .
As he suggests you will be much wiser when you have served an apprenticeship in real life .
I am sure you speak in good faith but you have such a load of propagander fed to you and you accept it on face value . You will be a politicians dream when they come knocking on your door come next election asking for your vote .
Your "Facts" are a load of political propagander read out of a book or newspaper. now to the older generations that is what is called crab .
My information is collected from real people with no political axe to grind and include valued immigrant workers . Get on the streets of Boston Adam and you will find hard working locals who will tell you that their wage packet in agriculture is less than it was 10 years ago.
In ten years time reflect on oxo,s comments and you will realise that in 2011 he was a lot wiser man than you .
-
Adam get in the real world and get your head out of those books!Adam what you doing on Saturday morning?I know where most of those immigrants live!I can drive you down all the council estates(social housing) and prove what utter shit you know about BOSTON!
Adam how much is it costing us Bostonians in extra school places?Boston West and Hawthorn Tree will be double in size in the next few years!
Come down West Street and see all the polish beers cans littered!
A butcher has seen human shit down Hatters Lane!
I could go on but you would only come back with your facts(which i believe must be nationwide not Boston)
-
Terrible thing to happen to anyone and fully understand the reaction of Bob I would probably feel the same.
Adam you are a local lad now at university studying I believe economics. I think you are being rather immature by writing your posts as though you are speaking from a position of authority, I believe you are a first year student and I understand that everything is exciting, but may I respectfully suggest you buckle down to your studies, after all we need good economists to take over from the present bunch who have put the country in the mire. Economics are enough for you so stick at it and leave politics and Diplomacy alone until you attend the university of life for a few years.
This must be the most patronising post I have ever read :o
-
Adam you are a young deluded boy . Take on board all of oxo ,s comments .
As he suggests you will be much wiser when you have served an apprenticeship in real life .
I am sure you speak in good faith but you have such a load of propagander fed to you and you accept it on face value . You will be a politicians dream when they come knocking on your door come next election asking for your vote .
Your "Facts" are a load of political propagander read out of a book or newspaper. now to the older generations that is what is called crab .
My information is collected from real people with no political axe to grind and include valued immigrant workers . Get on the streets of Boston Adam and you will find hard working locals who will tell you that their wage packet in agriculture is less than it was 10 years ago.
In ten years time reflect on oxo,s comments and you will realise that in 2011 he was a lot wiser man than you .
Closely followed by this one :o
-
Your "Facts" are a load of political propagander read out of a book or newspaper. now to the older generations that is what is called crab .
No. They. Are. Not.
I give up. You're clearly more interested in using cheap, irrelevant - and as said patronising - 'university of life' arguments instead of reading anything. I'll leave you with this link. Feel free to discredit it based on the fact that they haven't talked to anyone off the streets of Boston, or something equally trivial. Even better read the 'Abstract' (p1-2) and 'Discussion and Conclusions' (29-30). All of it is quite interesting stuff on immigration from Eastern Europe.
http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~uctpb21/Cpapers/DustmannFrattiniHalls2010.pdf (http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~uctpb21/Cpapers/DustmannFrattiniHalls2010.pdf)
-
Ferret, RamMalc I have never said they are all Scum, just the sh*t who did this.
I may like things in simple terms, and nothing more simple than this DO WRONG, AND DON'T PAY YOUR WAY, SHOULD MEAN DEPORTATION
We are too soft in this country and that is towards our own scum.
Please do not class me as racist, anyone that knows me knows I am not, and I take offence to this.
But what ever the nationality or colour if you do not adhere to the laws of OUR country you should pay.
Bob, you're first post uses the word "them" on two occasions rather than "him". I can understand that you were angry when posting and may not normally express such views publicly, but after calming down, you,be got to admit that you're initial post is racist..
How do you definitively know the nationality of the scumbag?
-
Come come Adam , please dont spoil their fun with facts , you know they'll always know better
As used to be said in Fleet Street , don't let the truth get in the way of a good story
-
Ferret, RamMalc I have never said they are all Scum, just the sh*t who did this.
I may like things in simple terms, and nothing more simple than this DO WRONG, AND DON'T PAY YOUR WAY, SHOULD MEAN DEPORTATION
We are too soft in this country and that is towards our own scum.
Please do not class me as racist, anyone that knows me knows I am not, and I take offence to this.
But what ever the nationality or colour if you do not adhere to the laws of OUR country you should pay.
Bob, you're first post uses the word "them" on two occasions rather than "him". I can understand that you were angry when posting and may not normally express such views publicly, but after calming down, you,be got to admit that you're initial post is racist..
How do you definitively know the nationality of the scumbag?
Right Ferret, let me make my point again, nearly all but you cannot see it >:(
I used the word THEM in a different context to the way you are making out. Them or they should be sent back if they continue to break the law. It was a Polish National who distracted my Mum in law whilst the purse was stolen.
Hold on, it could of been an English thug with a Polish accent.
Stop sticking up for this arsehole, and I hope you do not have to console an elderly relative of yours when they have been mugged.
STOP TWISTING MY POSTS
-
Nobody is sticking up for him, and nobody is belittling the mugging. You just seem now to have an agenda against Polish people...
Why did you mention their nationality in the first place?
-
Everyone agrees that mugging an elderly person is beyond the pale. There was a story in my local (Wakefield) paper last week about an 87 year old that was mugged, by an English Person. Does that mean all English people are scum too?
Didnt think so....
Ridiculous statement...
-
on my returns to boston to visit family i have recently had incidents with local (english) idiots. never had any problems with the newcomers (non english) to the town. maybe we should get rid of all the locals that don't (won't) work, do crime, don't contribute possitively to the community. maybe then boston might (big might) become a safe decent place to visit. but the english then would become a minority.
-
KingofKnaves - human shit in Hatters Lane. Then it was obviously Polish! Or was it from the Fitness Coach or Mickey Stones.
-
Heaven forbid you have a go at our lovely foreign nationals bob, these apologists nice simple answer is to use the racist card, don.t let em get you down.there is a serious problem in this town when my wife refuses to walk round on her own for fearing for her own safety, even i feel uneasy, was never like this before this mass immigration experiment, granted there are also english scum but why exacerbate the problem ten fold by importing every other foreign countries undesirables.
-
yes the theft is a terrible thing to happen but the way you have gone about posting it leaves alot to be desired. starting with the title "Polish scum of Boston", really does seem to be tarring the whole of the Polish population in Boston with the same brush.
As for other peoples comments about it never used to be like this before the mass migration to Boston, i believe its a sign of the times other places throughout the UK have had more crime whether there be migrant workers there or not.
-
its not english scum hanging round that bit of park on liqourpond street littering the grass and pi$$ing behind the bushes and up the wall of the red cross
its not largely british registered vehicles parking illegally down west street visiting the many european grocery stores
no-one can deny that nearly all of the court briefs in the local press concern eastern europeans drink driving/drunk and disorderly/petty theft from shops
yes - we do have english/british scum who also fit into the above examples in other towns and cities across britain and yes its true the large majority of foreign nationals behave themselves and work hard for what they get
having strong opinions about immigration does not make you a racist but constructive discussion on the matter is important if harmony amongst the communities is to be reached
footnote to adamhfacts,although true,can be dispatched in such a way to promote the desired view of the author (remember how the tv company edited and selected certain facts and film clips to paint all bostonians as fat lazy b@stards a few years back)
don't put all your faith in these 'facts' whilst disregarding the thoughts of locals as those thoughts and opinions are also 'facts' when debating such issues as this
-
in the words of Mrs Merton "lets have a heated debate".
Are Roman Catholics the "enemy"?
-
Front page of the Daily Mail today, Pack of lies Adam ?
-
Just a reminder that it is against the Patter Rules to post racist material on here.
So could we please avoid posting anything that could be interpreted as being racist?
I don't want to have to start deleting posts and banning people, so please obey the rules and behave.
-
Mel - I'm fortunate enough to have not seen a copy of that particular 'newspaper' for quite a few weeks. I expect their coverage of the border controls has been delightfully hysterical.
If anyone wants to raise anything else with me drop me a private message on here as I have no desire to keep clogging up this thread explaining very similar things each time.
-
Correction Adam : UNABLE to explain things each time .
-
I think everyone agrees immigration is out of control, they are needed to fill in the jobs we think we are above, such as cleaners. They also can be useful in higher jobs, like a few years ago we got a lot of really good dentists from countries like Poland, and to be fair most of them do a very good job.
Even where I live at the moment (South east london) me being white english means im pretty much an ethnic minority, its crazy the amount of people we let in.
Anyone who commits crimes and doesnt respect our culture should be deported back, especially those people who want to introduce sharia law or who burn poppies.
-
Front page of the Daily Mail today, Pack of lies Adam ?
It usually is. Surely you don't buy it.
-
Front page of the Daily Mail today, Pack of lies Adam ?
It usually is. Surely you don't buy it.
Daily Mail and Daily Express as bad as each other. Newspapers? All they do is stir things up
-
Polish Scum - is pretty racist Ken ....
There were certain parts of Boston I did not like walking through 30 years ago! Let's be honest if you walked past Kitwood Boys wearing a Grammar School blazer you were not exactly shaken warmly by the hand.
Of course the immigrant communities have their share of crime - but Adam's stats are worth looking at, and not to be dismissed because he is young, about the only thing to be dismissed is the Sun/Daily Mail/Daily Express headlines, which usual bear not resemblance to the truth.
I remember at seeing the SUN headline "***** denies taking drugs". The article then continued to explain that the famous person had been out that night but had not taken drugs, but someone else at the nightclub had. Of course the SUn knew exactly what it was doing - slurring the person's name, associating him with drugs - the old no smoke without fire story. This is what they continually do with immigration stories. Good recent example was about the rising population of UK - centre for statistics saying was largely down to less people dying, but that was not the way the red top papers ran the story..... and on and on it goes.
My family are in Boston and I only visit a few times a year - yes I am surprised at the numbers of immigrants - but I am not particularly intimidated by them. Certainly no more so than a Boston gang of youths.
I have to say Boston has never been a very cosmopolitan town and the sudden influx of Europeans has unsettled many.
I myself live as a foreigner in another country - similar arguments are but forward here. Oh the Brits drink and drive, fight etc. Yes some do, but obviously not all. Yes Brits go against the local customs and upset the local population on a daily basis - that's what happens when there is little education and understanding of one another's position and views.
Let's keep things in perspective and not over the state the case on either side.
And racism comes in many forms.....
-
Not had much time for the patter today . My main job has been writing a 8 page letter to Chris Grayling MP . Minister of Employment . This was a follow up to a 10 page submission I sent to him recently . Have also sent letters and emails to Mark Simmonds MP. on the same subject .
The subject ? After finding a local gov dept made underpayments to a local person recently I demanding that a though investigation is made to make sure clients with a poor grasp of english (ie immigrants) have not been witheld payments by the dept .
Also had a enjoyable chat with with our very friendly neighbours mixed race english / lithuanian .
Like to think I have done my bit in helping to intergrate to good honest settlers.
How much time have you spent promoting race relations today Adam?
-
Just an observation.
I recently became involved in a discussion with some Polish immigrants in Stanground (Peterborough) whose families came here during WW2. When the conversation turned to the current Polish economic migrants, the air turned blue. As for other eastern Europeans, I blush to remember the comments.
Funny old World, ain't it?
-
Is it racist if Poles settled here slag off newcomers.?
-
Ok I think this could rumble on for an age going round in circles so I'm getting a very itchy 'locking' finger.
From reading this thread in a few chunks, as given the title I left it well alone for a while, there are a few things to pick up.
Crime is bad and whoever is responsible should be accountable. Nobody on this thread has said or I assume thinks otherwise.
Pointing out some information on effects of immigration does NOT make you the immigration minister or personally liable for any and all ills brought by immigration, nor does it mean you have to answer vaguely related questions put in an accusatory tone. It does however mean you have pointed out some information on the effects of immigration. Simply that.
Also age is no meter of anyones worth. Its only a couple of weeks since the 'old timers' were getting a slagging off for berating anyone in a Boston shirt, this is just as nonsensical as saying someone who is young enough to be at university cannot know enough about any subject to make a valid comment.
Finally, saying something racist means you are a racist. No amount of red mist or after the event apologising cuts it. Just look at the most important man in the game which brought us all to this forum in the first place. Oh and people still read the Daily Mail? The mind bogles.
-
Front page of the Daily Mail today, Pack of lies Adam ?
:o Someone believes what they read in The Mail?
-
EXCLUSIVE: Diana liked cake!
More tomorrow.
-
YAWN!
-
The Daily Mail reference does put a lot of this thread in perspective , may as well have been a quote from Viz
-
Please delete this post
-
Well its better than Adam defending crap performances this season!
The fact is that an oap has been robbed by a non british citzen!
Its a shame some of these scum dont emmigrate to Iran or similar countries instead of ours!They would probably be handless by now!
-
You are so 21st century KON ;)
-
Finally, saying something racist means you are a racist.
wow - can't believe i'm about to defend john terry but
lets assume john terry did say what he's supposedly said - does that really make him a racist?
it certainly would make him guilty of making a racial comment which we all agree is totally unacceptable
however my impression of a racist is someone who cannot tolerate any member of a particular racial group and will take very opportunity to berate and abuse the individuals and certainly would not befriend them
are you seriously trying to tell me that john terry and ashley cole are not good friends........or indeed any other of his 'black' team mates
can any of you seriously say after being riled by a certain individual with particular 'racial' characteristics you haven't made similar comments
telling jokes about blonde bimbos could be considered racist towards blonde women
abusing/joking about ginger haired / tall lanky / short / fat / skinny or even people who perhaps don't paint the perfect portrait in looks could also be racist
making a racist remark is unacceptable and naive/ignorant on the abusers part but it doesn't necessarily tie you to a racist group
-
http://www.thompsonstradeunionlaw.co.uk/information-and-resources/race-discrimination.htm
:)
-
http://www.thompsonstradeunionlaw.co.uk/information-and-resources/race-discrimination.htm
:)
as i said it makes the abuser guilty of racial abuse - not confirmation of being a racist
i wear glasses and often if i've seriously upset someone it has been known for them to address me as four eyed c#nt - doesn't mean they are totally against anyone wearing glasses - just that they took a dislike to something i said/done and used a characteristic of me to ridicule and belittle me........as an individual person
-
ahhhh , well at least that's cleared that up , unless you wear a white sheet with a pointy hat and have a cross burning habit you aren't really a rascist , anyway Mr Blatter says you can say what you want so long as you shake hands after .
-
Is picking on Daily Mail readers racist?
-
The fact that this topic is already on six pages proves stleast that the people in this area have strong views on the subject. Personally I feel that eastern Europeans contribute to a higher proportion of local crimes than 'british' people. As said in another post the court cases in the Standard involve a large majority of eastern Europeans as does my local rag (Spalding Guardian.)
-
Is picking on Daily Mail readers racist?
no its just picking on the gullible
-
lets assume john terry did say what he's supposedly said - does that really make him a racist?
Yes.
however my impression of a racist is someone who cannot tolerate any member of a particular racial group and will take very opportunity to berate and abuse the individuals and certainly would not befriend them
That is your impression, fair enough, I just choose to not accept racism in any form be it a single remark or a consistent view.
are you seriously trying to tell me that john terry and ashley cole are not good friends........or indeed any other of his 'black' team mates
Ah the old 'cannot be racist i've got a black mate', yeah that might be a little flawed.
can any of you seriously say after being riled by a certain individual with particular 'racial' characteristics you haven't made similar comments
If someone is behaving like a complete arsehole I'll say so and I'll leave their race out of it. Again though if you choose to use it against someone then that is your choice.
telling jokes about blonde bimbos could be considered racist towards blonde women
abusing/joking about ginger haired / tall lanky / short / fat / skinny or even people who perhaps don't paint the perfect portrait in looks could also be racist
Not really though, as its not about race is it. Since that is the subject, not if someone has a silly tash or wears glasses*
making a racist remark is unacceptable and naive/ignorant on the abusers part but it doesn't necessarily tie you to a racist group
An adult, plus most teenage kids, are fully aware of the implications of making racist remarks to or about people of a specific race. There is no way naivety or ignorance comes into it. Again if you think that is an excuse then that is your choice. Likewise if you think making such remarks independently is fine but if you are in a group not, again your choice.
* I currently have both, bloody Movember! (no offence Tash ;o)
-
In an episode of Porridge, Fletcher called another prisoner a Glaswegian black bastard. When the guy objected, Fletcher challenged him to prove the statement untrue, which of course he couldn't. (Much hilarity.)
Leaving aside the word bastard, which has taken on connotations other than its original meaning, look at the other two descriptions. If I can call someone a Glaswegian when he is, then why is it wrong to call someone black when he is? My son has a very good friend who is very black. Have I committed an offence by stating that?
My point is that you have to get inside the mind of the person who is speaking to see if he means to be offensive, and then we are one step away from thought police.
It is an unfortunate trend over the past sixty years or so to import American meanings for our native language (this is probably seen as a racist suggestion) which we we used in a naive way before we allowed this corruption. We all know of the Agatha Christie novel that may no longer speak its name, and Noddy can't have his old friends around him.
Of course we should be careful how we speak, but I long for simpler times. I also state emphatically that racism in all its forms is indefensible, but we should be allowed to address reality as we perceive it without being accused of wrongdoing. I have the audacity to assume that Ken agrees, and this is why he has allowed this topic to continue.
Finally, my sympathies to the poor lady who has suffered. It would be lovely if at some point in the near future a foreign national happened to do her a kindness, that restored her and Bob's faith.
-
good post fairfax
MNH
i made it clear i don't condone any form of racist abuse - i was simply making a comparison to other 'races' where we have all probably offended from time to time
does a ginger haired person deserve abuse but not a dark skinned person?
is it fair game to call lincoln fans inbreds because they're from lincoln but not say anything slightly unsavoury about foreign nationals
as fairfax says - lets apply a dose of reality in such areas
-
I think it is important to remember that racism is unacceptable in modern life. But we all have to understand that it is not the term 'Polish', 'Black', 'Ginger' which makes a statement racist. It is the tone, manner and context which it is used.
If by using the word Polish, you are using it to suggest a 'lesser person' (derogatory statement), then you are racist. If it was sincerely in a discriptive nature, then you are not. However by using the words Polish & Scum in the same sentence and Polish at a time of high emotion you lead people to assume it is meant as a derogatory statement.
So if I say 'Mr X is a Black Man', I am not racist, just using a commonly used description of a Negro Male. If I say 'Mr X is a Black B'stard' then i'm not inherently racist as the 'black' in the statement could have been meant as a descriptive term, however by using the word in this context I would find it hard to justify it's use in such away. It is my responsibility to make sure that I am not misinterpreted and categorized as Racist.
The difference between the statement Ginger B'stard and Black B'stard is simple, the Black people of the world have in history been treated as lesser persons, due to the colour of their skin, as such it is more commonly beleived that the 'black' in a derogatory statement is a sign that you are suggesting that the person is a lesser person due to their skin tone. As far as I know Ginger people haven't been persecuted in such a way.
So as a conclusion do I think your post was racist?, I hope not. Do I think you are racist, I hope not?. From not knowing you and reading your post, could I be drawn to the conclusion you are a racist/xenaphobic? Yes I could. Does it matter what I think of you? Not a F'ing jot.
I hope you Mother in Law is getting over her nightmare ordeal.
-
Think this thread has run its course now, the issue of immigration and racism is a very emotive subject and probably one that can't be debated properly over an internet football forum, I for one do not wish to fall out with fellow supporters over it, both sides of the argument have valid points and it has been interesting reading different peoples opinions. Best wishes to your mum in law Bob.
-
lets assume john terry did say what he's supposedly said - does that really make him a racist?
Yes.
however my impression of a racist is someone who cannot tolerate any member of a particular racial group and will take very opportunity to berate and abuse the individuals and certainly would not befriend them
That is your impression, fair enough, I just choose to not accept racism in any form be it a single remark or a consistent view.
are you seriously trying to tell me that john terry and ashley cole are not good friends........or indeed any other of his 'black' team mates
Ah the old 'cannot be racist i've got a black mate', yeah that might be a little flawed.
can any of you seriously say after being riled by a certain individual with particular 'racial' characteristics you haven't made similar comments
If someone is behaving like a complete arsehole I'll say so and I'll leave their race out of it. Again though if you choose to use it against someone then that is your choice.
telling jokes about blonde bimbos could be considered racist towards blonde women
abusing/joking about ginger haired / tall lanky / short / fat / skinny or even people who perhaps don't paint the perfect portrait in looks could also be racist
Not really though, as its not about race is it. Since that is the subject, not if someone has a silly tash or wears glasses*
making a racist remark is unacceptable and naive/ignorant on the abusers part but it doesn't necessarily tie you to a racist group
An adult, plus most teenage kids, are fully aware of the implications of making racist remarks to or about people of a specific race. There is no way naivety or ignorance comes into it. Again if you think that is an excuse then that is your choice. Likewise if you think making such remarks independently is fine but if you are in a group not, again your choice.
* I currently have both, bloody Movember! (no offence Tash ;o)
None taken Adam you can't help it if your Tashist :D
-
Perhaps time to remember the late great Charlie Williams.
"I met a woman today who had white skin, strawberry blonde hair, blue eyes, red lips and pink nails.............and she called me coloured?"
-
Sadley, bostox, ginger haired people are persecuted. My late and much loved sister was ginger haired and was also autistic. She died aged 49, but was driven to distraction during her years at Kitwood Girls School and attempted suicide on numerous occasions, including throwing herself into the Haven near the stump. At school, nothing was done to protect her and the head teacher told my mother that she would just have to put up with it. (I really hope that times have changed.) Strangely, when asked why the girls picked on her, she always answered that it was the colour of her hair.
Bullying and racism are the same crime and both can be the result of thoughtlessness. Forgive us our trespasses.
-
Could we please have more ignorant and duh-duh -style posts? This thread has been hilarious in some places.
I was once told that the "f**king cones" (sic) were taking over certain towns and cities.
Now, skin-colour slurs are one thing, but geometric ones, too?
Come on, more, "I'm not racist, but..." posts, please. The baffling stupidity of some of these posts has made me smile, and on occasion, laugh as well.
Bravo!!
(http://assets0.ordienetworks.com/images/GifGuide/clapping/taxidriver.gif)
-
Hope thats not you in that photo Plastic Yank, he looks like one of the members of that vile organisation the U. A F. ;D
-
should leave the eu and get them out, not helping the economy or community
-
Hope thats not you in that photo Plastic Yank, he looks like one of the members of that vile organisation the U. A F. ;D
Nah. That's not me. That'll be Travis.
I guess you don't know the film or the reference I'm making. ;)
-
Yeah your correct mate, don't know, so showing both my ignorance and my age. Still stuck listening to old 70's progressive rock i,m afraid rather than watching the latest films. :D
-
Yeah your correct mate, don't know, so showing both my ignorance and my age. Still stuck listening to old 70's progressive rock i,m afraid rather than watching the latest films. :D
Well it's a film from 1976. 8)
-
i think certain posters in this thread should have taken more heed of a certain President from over the pond who famously once said ;
"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."
-
Well i'll just show my ignorance then, was never a big movie buff. ;D
-
who said i was refering to movies ;)
-
Sadley, bostox, ginger haired people are persecuted. My late and much loved sister was ginger haired and was also autistic. She died aged 49, but was driven to distraction during her years at Kitwood Girls School and attempted suicide on numerous occasions, including throwing herself into the Haven near the stump. At school, nothing was done to protect her and the head teacher told my mother that she would just have to put up with it. (I really hope that times have changed.) Strangely, when asked why the girls picked on her, she always answered that it was the colour of her hair.
Bullying and racism are the same crime and both can be the result of thoughtlessness. Forgive us our trespasses.
Fairfax - I apologise for any offence I caused. I was simply using the example of Ginger, whereas I could have used Fat, Glasses wearers etc. My point was more as an example as to why Racism is a more emotive subject and not that any discrimination is acceptable.
Again I sincerely apologise for any offence I may have caused.
-
I know what you were referring to Rammalc didn't want to lower myself to your greater wit and intelligence, and you were referring to yourself yes? ;)
-
Yeah your correct mate, don't know, so showing both my ignorance and my age. Still stuck listening to old 70's progressive rock i,m afraid rather than watching the latest films. :D
Well it's a film from 1976. 8)
You talkin' to me? Well, there's no one else here.... ;)
-
Well i will admit you finally piqued my interest and i ashamedly googled the line, taxi driver being the film yes, honestly say i have never seen it mate, already said not a great movie watcher.
-
Certainly no offence taken or perceived, Bostox. Healthy debate is always worthwhile.
-
On the subject of racism, the abuse of the Japanese ref by our own supporters at Solihull was appalling. It was racist abuse, some childish, some less so, but all very offensive.
I like to have a go at refs as much as anyone, but that just wasn't right. And that ref was better than the usual standard, so didn't warrant any abuse!
At a higher league ground I suspect there would have been arrests. 'Casual' racism was commonplace when I first started going to matches in the early 80s, and Boston was probably behind much of the country because there was vitually no black/Asian population (I only remember one black kid in my 7 yrs at BGS), but you just can't say that sort of thing in 2011.
If any of the people involved use the Patter, I hope you're ashamed and that you engage brain before mouth in future.
To get back to this particular thread, Bob I hope your mum in law is getting over it - punishment for so-called 'petty' crime is not sufficient. The victims have to live with the consequences of the crime for the rest of their life, and that can ruin the lives of the victims and their families. No punishment can be enough for that, in my view, but you have to at least get the scumbags off the street until they can respect other people.
The stick Adam H has had on here is astonishing - fair play for making your point, Adam, and backing it up with stats. My degree was also in economics and I know you can compile stats to support virtually any viewpoint. You know as well as I do that statistics are almost always compiled with an agenda - I haven't read the study you refer to but the conclusion suggests a liberal agenda in this case; that doesn't match my own view, so I'd take these stats with a pinch of salt (not very scientific, I admit, but I'm not going to do my own study to support my own view!).
-
Good post BP, don't think posters are deliberately out to have a pop at Adam, immigration is a very emotive subject and people do have strong opinions on it. For what it's worth I value Adams' opinions his posts are always well articulated and well thought out, makes some good points and agree with him that immigration is beneficial to the economy if not essential, but the keyword is "controlled" migration, something that hasn't happened in the last ten years or so since the start of labours ridiculous social engineering project.
This is what is frustrating the locals, not immigration as such but the numbers that have overwhelmed the town and the migrant undesirables that are clearly not benefiting Boston, sad fact is there is sod all we can do about it.
As far as racism goes likewise I remember watching football in the 70s and 80s with the monkey chants, banana throwing and name calling, this society has progressed greatly since then especially in football and I can recall only one racist remark in the last 30 years, occured at Boston a couple of seasons ago when some old chap blurted out "You F###ing B##ck B###d"now in his heyday he would probably have gotten away with it but it was credit to the Boston supporters who instantly shot him down, he looked decidedly sheepish for the rest of the game.
Can't comment on the bloke at Solihull as wasn't there but do hope that the club dealt with him accordingly.
By the way best of luck with your degree Adam.
-
I have erroneously sent a posting meant for this thread to BUSA travel to Gainsboro thread . Can,t be arsed to put it on here at the moment.
-
I've just been out and bought a box of Mr. Sheen, now where's this scum you all want to polish?
-
I have erroneously sent a posting meant for this thread to BUSA travel to Gainsboro thread . Can,t be arsed to put it on here at the moment.
It's not too difficult to copy & paste.
-
Maybe they only teach that at universities p86. Adam wouldn't have made the same mistake.. :-\
-
Is it not time to lock this thead........? Its getting tedious on so many levels.
-
I'm now considerably concerned! Twice in a couple of days I find myself agreeing with N40! I may change my name to naughtyfifty!! ;) However, Ken do the right thing with this thread please.