Pilgrims' Patter
The Forum => The B-Ark => Topic started by: porl99 on March 23, 2015, 07:57:24 PM
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Quite an interesting interview I thought with 'legend' Lee Canoville:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/32027569 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/32027569)
Unfortunately I think wage expectations of home grown players and agents are the main problem here. They should look to tackle this first before limiting the number of overseas players.
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The problem with the national team is that a smaller percentage of our elite English players are playing continental football - because they don't go abroad, limiting their options (because they can earn big bucks in midtable PL clubs).
The top national teams have almost all of their players at top clubs.
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eu players have a rite to work here too bro.
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eu players have a rite to work here too bro.
If you're replying to me, then that has no relevance to what I said... my comment is regarding the lack of English players going abroad (within the EU) to the big leagues, like Spain, Italy and Germany - even France.
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chill man! you spendin to mutch time on this site! it ain't like its ur job is it? i get ur point bro. just saying we all in eu so don't matter.
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Agree with you P86
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It isn't an issue with English players not going abroad - it's more an issue with our leading club sides being filled with overseas imports. If you look at the current Barcelona squad you'll find a nucleus of Spanish players; same with Bayern Munich and German players; same again with Ajax and Dutch players. But if you look at the first team squads of Manchester City, Arsenal and Chelsea you'd be struggling to pick out eleven English first team players between them.
Until our leading club sides contain a nucleus of English talent I fear we can write off any chances of our national side being successful.
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Hit the nail on the head LP but because the constant greed in the premier league it won't change.
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It isn't an issue with English players not going abroad - it's more an issue with our leading club sides being filled with overseas imports. If you look at the current Barcelona squad you'll find a nucleus of Spanish players; same with Bayern Munich and German players; same again with Ajax and Dutch players. But if you look at the first team squads of Manchester City, Arsenal and Chelsea you'd be struggling to pick out eleven English first team players between them.
Until our leading club sides contain a nucleus of English talent I fear we can write off any chances of our national side being successful.
But you still get Spanish and German players over here, and across the leagues. How many England internationals have played in La Liga? Single figures? Bundesliga - Owen Hargreaves, and he was born there!
England has about 40-50 players good (?) enough for the national squad. For them to play in the Champions League, they have to spread across 4 clubs. Steven Gerrard didn't play in the Champions League, despite being England captain. Rooney is the same this season.
If there were less foreigners over here, would the clubs be as good as they are now? Is Patrick Bamford as good as Diego Costa? Is James Wilson as good as Robin van Persie? You need a good mix, combined with coaching, that knows how to pass a ball.
Those who have read Soccernomics, will realise England actually OVERACHIEVE for what we are. We aren't the biggest population, we aren't the richest country, and our tactics until about 5 years ago have been very one-dimensional. Foreign coaches in the Premier League spread proven knowledge. Spain's national success over recent years (except the last World Cup) was based on Johan Cruyff's coaching/tactical methods he took to Barcelona from Ajax (itself driven by Total Football of the Dutch).
Any changes made now will not make any short-term difference. We need continental methods brought in by continental coaches, but then adopted by local people.
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man you really have to cool it. take a chill pill bro. what do you do during the day? you must be a nitemare to work with on that net all the time! we r all eu so it don't matter where they play.
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man you really have to cool it. take a chill pill bro. what do you do during the day? you must be a nitemare to work with on that net all the time! we r all eu so it don't matter where they play.
missed the point again
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But you still get Spanish and German players over here, and across the leagues. How many England internationals have played in La Liga? Single figures?
Laurie Cunningham
Steve McManaman
Jermaine Pennant
David Beckham
Michael Owen
Gary Lineker
Jonathan Woodgate
Vinny Samways
Stan Collymore
Dalian Atkinson
OK, so I've included a few under 21 and B internationals. But at least I've proved double figures.
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How many UK players are Barca, Real, PSG and Bayern looking at at the minute?
Chances are it's pretty low, poss even zero.
They are after world class players, I don't see any in UK teams. Apart from possibly .....
Joe Hart?
Rooney?
Kane. If he keeps it up
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But you still get Spanish and German players over here, and across the leagues. How many England internationals have played in La Liga? Single figures?
Laurie Cunningham
Steve McManaman
Jermaine Pennant
David Beckham
Michael Owen
Gary Lineker
Jonathan Woodgate
Vinny Samways
Stan Collymore
Dalian Atkinson
OK, so I've included a few under 21 and B internationals. But at least I've proved double figures.
Now compare that to the number of Spanish, French, German and Italian internationals who play outside of their own country...
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But you still get Spanish and German players over here, and across the leagues. How many England internationals have played in La Liga? Single figures?
Laurie Cunningham
Steve McManaman
Jermaine Pennant
David Beckham
Michael Owen
Gary Lineker
Jonathan Woodgate
Vinny Samways
Stan Collymore
Dalian Atkinson
OK, so I've included a few under 21 and B internationals. But at least I've proved double figures.
And over how long a period did it take to accumalate these few players ?
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The problem is, English youngsters are not really given a chance at the top prem clubs resulting not getting regular football from a young age at that level. What usually happens is that hey get farmed out on loan to a lower league club and not gaining that top flight experience. By the time they come of age they are replaced with a foreigner with experience for which they have paid big bucks. The youngster then finds themselves surplus to requirements and plays the majority of their career in the lower leagues. Credit to spurs for giving Harry Kane regular first team football...... and look at the results.
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The problem is, English youngsters are not really given a chance at the top prem clubs resulting not getting regular football from a young age at that level. What usually happens is that hey get farmed out on loan to a lower league club and not gaining that top flight experience. By the time they come of age they are replaced with a foreigner with experience for which they have paid big bucks. The youngster then finds themselves surplus to requirements and plays the majority of their career in the lower leagues. Credit to spurs for giving Harry Kane regular first team football...... and look at the results.
Exactly. Even Kane had loan spells with three or four other lower league clubs before Spurs finally gave him a chance at a comparatively late age - he was 21 by the time he made his first Premier League start. Even then, would he have had that chance if the likes of Adebayor and Soldado hadn't been misfiring? I doubt it, and think he'd be in Spurs reserve side or out on loan again somewhere. He certainly wouldn't have been in the England squad.
We can't really assess how good our young English players are. Too many of our top clubs' first elevens are full of foreign imports leaving the up-and-coming English players with only a few minutes game time here and there. How can you assess them on that basis? I take the point that Patrick Bamford might not currently be as good as Diego Costa, etc., but he is never going to reach those levels unless he is given the right kind of experience and opportunities. I'm sure though Bamford is a much better medium to long-term prospect at Chelsea than someone like Didier Drogba, and that's where the problem lies - the top clubs put too much precedence on picking squads for immediate success rather than building for the future.
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There should be a conveyor belt system, where English youngsters work their way up the ladder in England, then earn a move abroad (they can always return).
Take Will Hughes as an example at Derby. If Derby get promoted this season, he should want to spend 1 season with Derby where he knows he'll get regular football. Then move to a bigger Premier League team, again where he'll expect regular football (Swansea/Newcastle maybe?). As he keeps improving, he earns another move up - maybe a club on the fringes of the top 5 or 6, like Spurs or Southampton. Then to a Champions League club (or Liverpool ;)), and once considered a star players, why not move out to mainland Europe? Learn new tactics, learn a new language, learn how clubs in Europe work.
The exceptional talents may jump up more quickly - but they still must endeavour to play regular football at the highest level they can. If this means loan periods in the Championship, or lower Premier League teams, then that is better than playing U21 football.
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Why bother to be one of the best players in the world when you can earn £300,000 a week in this country by being second best.
I think that the English games takes the individual flare and ability away from players. I recall when Theo Walcott first appeared he was a fantastic individual player who was considered to be a star of the future but had to be Protected from advancing too quickly into superstar status. In my mind, although still a great talent, he is nothing like he was. There are some English/Welsh/Scottish players who are wanted by foreign clubs, Gareth Bale for example, but not many.
Anyway I think the restriction suggested only applies to non EEC players so that still leaves a hell of a lot of European players we can import.
English football has won bugger all since 1966 and I don't see that changing for many years to come.
I would much rather watch Boston United play than waste money watching England.Our level of football is more exciting, the players have more heart for the club, supporters feel more valued and the standard of refereeing is far more laughable.
You can stuff Clubs like Man Utd where the sun don't shine. I went once and all you are is a bum on a seat providing funds for over payed over rated Roonees. Their beef burgers were dearer as well and not as good as ours.
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forget about english spanish french. individual euro countries are united now. we are all eu. diago costa and harry caine are the same. both europeans. we euros can work anywhere in eu. best players play in best leagues. don't matter wear they born. end of.
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Why bother to be one of the best players in the world when you can earn £300,000 a week in this country by being second best.
I think that the English games takes the individual flare and ability away from players.
Definitely - absolutely correct about both. Players would rather pocket tens of thousands of pounds a week, for sitting on a bench, than play every week for a little bit less.
And then you get players who are vilified for not tracking back, when their job is to create and/or score goals...