Pilgrims' Patter
The Forum => The B-Ark => Topic started by: steve m on April 07, 2019, 09:14:17 AM
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Just listened to his post Blyth interview (twice!)
As always refreshingly honest and to the point.
BUT......
Why has he signed players who he is clearly saying are not good enough for this league?
I do like him and his blunt honesty, but must confess am very concerned about next season. I took solace in the fact that he was let down badly by some big names at the start of the season (and you could see none of them were prepared to get stuck in!) but why is he signing players who are patently not good enough at this level.
Of course there are exceptions, but you get my point......
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I always find it strange the comment that the ex Lincoln big names let us down. We won 4 of our 5 games with them in the team and you could see they were real quality. Memory’s awful but the quality of pass from Marriott/Margets through to Johnson for the goal against Guisely is what we have lacked from anyone and Arnold’s goal at Stockport again was real quality. The question has to be what was the issue, the players or the manager.
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It's a fair point.......
My view of them was based upon the lack of challenge, avoiding tackles and a conversation with one of them when he said "this is too physical for me" or words to that effect.
I do concede that they were quality players, but it seemed to me they were not up for the fight....
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We were already losing games with them on the side and weren't much better off with them in the team
Maybe he could've given them longer played to their strengths better but at the time we still had hopes of winning it and he wanted to stamp his authority on the team.
Sadly he signed lads who just aren't good enough in their places
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I guess he would have been struggling to find decent players once the season was well underway. My concern is that he is signing players who he seems to confirm are not good enough.
The first half dozen games of next season will be the determining factor.
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I always find it strange the comment that the ex Lincoln big names let us down. We won 4 of our 5 games with them in the team and you could see they were real quality. Memory’s awful but the quality of pass from Marriott/Margets through to Johnson for the goal against Guisely is what we have lacked from anyone and Arnold’s goal at Stockport again was real quality. The question has to be what was the issue, the players or the manager.
A very good question to ask at the forum.
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I always find it strange the comment that the ex Lincoln big names let us down. We won 4 of our 5 games with them in the team and you could see they were real quality. Memory’s awful but the quality of pass from Marriott/Margets through to Johnson for the goal against Guisely is what we have lacked from anyone and Arnold’s goal at Stockport again was real quality. The question has to be what was the issue, the players or the manager.
Arnold - clearly a talented player, but for large parts of those early games he was a complete passenger, stuck out wide waiting for balls that either never arrived or were pumped over his head for a goal kick. I don't think he really wanted to be here after the first few games.
Marriott - I actually really liked him and can only assume Elliott wasn't impressed enough in training, or felt he could get more bang for his buck if he moved him on and reinvested his wages elsewhere in the side. A gamble that has failed.
Margetts - disastrous, pointless signing, Elliott clearly didn't rate him from the off.
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There are only so many times a manager can admit to making mistakes before he has to face to consequences. CE signs these players and then moans that they aren't good enough, I get the feeling its CE that's not good enough.
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But we employ a scout to run the rule over these players too.
Are we looking at a systemic failure?
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But we employ a scout to run the rule over these players too.
Are we looking at a systemic failure?
And yet that scout was very successful under Dennis Greene and found us some real gems.
I do think that pretty much everything has gone wrong for us this season. It's been crap.
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theres better managers and players in the local ucl clubs ;) ;)
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Agree but look at where we have been beaten or conceded in the last minutes of some games this year. Those points would have put us there or there abouts, not excusing the facts that we are where we are this year but Craigs a young ambitious manager who is a very honest guy. Some bigger teams than us wont go up this year and will be having the same debate. I think he will have learnt a lot hopefully in preparation for next year.
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Agree with that Fishtoft. York, Darlington, Hereford, Kidderminster, Chester to name a few.
Big learning curve for CE this season. Hopefully he's learnt what sort of player you need in this league (even if he hasn't been able to sign many of them). Also, that a lot of the lower league players are at that level for good reason - there aren't many that make the step up and some of his ex Shaw lane players have proven that. But it's his first full season at this level and there probably aren't many managers who achieve in these circumstances. If he can build on what he has learnt this season and use it as a springboard for next then great. After having so many managers in recent years that haven't been popular for one reason or another - Greene, Drury, Lee, Murray, Taylor, Welsh, Evans! then I'm not in favour of more change - unless someone can name a manager that will bring us guaranteed success :)
TEP
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Agree with that Fishtoft. York, Darlington, Hereford, Kidderminster, Chester to name a few.
Big learning curve for CE this season. Hopefully he's learnt what sort of player you need in this league (even if he hasn't been able to sign many of them). Also, that a lot of the lower league players are at that level for good reason - there aren't many that make the step up and some of his ex Shaw lane players have proven that. But it's his first full season at this level and there probably aren't many managers who achieve in these circumstances. If he can build on what he has learnt this season and use it as a springboard for next then great. After having so many managers in recent years that haven't been popular for one reason or another - Greene, Drury, Lee, Murray, Taylor, Welsh, Evans! then I'm not in favour of more change - unless someone can name a manager that will bring us guaranteed success :)
TEP
Paul Hurst
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Likely to drop from managing a Championship side to National League North?
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But we employ a scout to run the rule over these players too.
Are we looking at a systemic failure?
And yet that scout was very successful under Dennis Greene and found us some real gems.
I do think that pretty much everything has gone wrong for us this season. It's been crap.
Who was the gems Pete ?
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Did Hurst actually manage Ipswich? Not according to two mates who are Ipswich season ticket holders
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It is not very often that a manager who gets his recruitment so badly wrong in his first full season gets it right second time around. The two main reasons being that his confidence & judgement is shot, after messing it up first time around or; he has been sacked.
I have said on here many times that I'm not one for getting rid of managers rashly, without giving them a fair crack at it. I like Craig, he's honest & he wants to bring success to this club.
It also has to be said he has been unable to motivate most of the players he has signed for most of this season. Something has not been right (especially at home). His post match interviews are now resembling Murray's towards the end, as he is just recycling the same old stuff: 'it's not good enough, "most of them downed tools", I can't accept that lack of effort", some of them are not good enough at this level" etc etc. You signed them all Craig!
I won't be able to get to the forum on Wednesday. If I was going I would like to ask Craig why the recruitment was so poor this season, & what he will do differently to bring in the right players for next season?
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If you look back over our history, there are only 3 managers that have been with the club for more than 2 years, maybe we need to allow some stability and let someone develop at this level so we have a sound base to move forwards?
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It is not very often that a manager who gets his recruitment so badly wrong in his first full season gets it right second time around. The two main reasons being that his confidence & judgement is shot, after messing it up first time around or; he has been sacked.
I have said on here many times that I'm not one for getting rid of managers rashly, without giving them a fair crack at it. I like Craig, he's honest & he wants to bring success to this club.
It also has to be said he has been unable to motivate most of the players he has signed for most of this season. Something has not been right (especially at home). His post match interviews are now resembling Murray's towards the end, as he is just recycling the same old stuff: 'it's not good enough, "most of them downed tools", I can't accept that lack of effort", some of them are not good enough at this level" etc etc. You signed them all Craig!
I won't be able to get to the forum on Wednesday. If I was going I would like to ask Craig why the recruitment was so poor this season, & what he will do differently to bring in the right players for next season?
That echo's my thoughts too, I like him, he's honest, his track record is very good and he admits to his mistakes, but.......
There's been far too many made this season, almost 50 players used is a ridiculous amount, it screams of something not be right behind the scenes, be it recruitment, scouting or just a general dressing room malaise.
In my book he's got until October to prove we're back on the right track next season, he'd plenty of credit in the bank from last seasons turn around but thats running out given the shambles this season has turned into.
However, and this won't sit easy with a lot on here.......are the board not absolved of blame for appointing these men in the first place? We're told they are the very best candidate but history is showing a consistent track record of failure. Never be let it said that DN and NK don't back their managers, they do as S&H & Greene proved, but look at the others, Taylor, Lee, Drury & Murray.......hardly a ringing endorsement for outstanding appointments is it?
This will be the first forum I can't get to since the farcical McFraud charades where the usual acolytes applauded every bile laden lie from his mouth, hopefully people will ask the difficult questions that need asking tomorrow night, but I'm not holding my breath.
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But we employ a scout to run the rule over these players too.
Are we looking at a systemic failure?
And yet that scout was very successful under Dennis Greene and found us some real gems.
I do think that pretty much everything has gone wrong for us this season. It's been crap.
Who was the gems Pete ?
It's not that long ago mate, pretty sure you can work out who were the best players in that team without my help.
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cus there wos no gems :(
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However, and this won't sit easy with a lot on here.......are the board not absolved of blame for appointing these men in the first place? We're told they are the very best candidate but history is showing a consistent track record of failure. Never be let it said that DN and NK don't back their managers, they do as S&H & Greene proved, but look at the others, Taylor, Lee, Drury & Murray.......hardly a ringing endorsement for outstanding appointments is it?
Name a chairman who has got every single managerial apppointment (or at leats most of them) correct... if only football was that easy.
DN and NK are housebuilders, they do not specialise in running a football club. They have learnt on the job, the hard way.
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cus there wos no gems :(
Southwell, Piergianni?
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If you look back over our history, there are only 3 managers that have been with the club for more than 2 years, maybe we need to allow some stability and let someone develop at this level so we have a sound base to move forwards?
Yes, stick with Elliot, he's shown enough. Stability will be good for the club and can see it paying off.
Greene's first season here we missed out on the playoffs, next two we were in the playoffs.
Many Norwich fans wanted to get rid of Farke after his first season last season after a mid table finish, now they're top of the league and heading for the premier league without spending big money (relative to others that that level).
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However, and this won't sit easy with a lot on here.......are the board not absolved of blame for appointing these men in the first place? We're told they are the very best candidate but history is showing a consistent track record of failure. Never be let it said that DN and NK don't back their managers, they do as S&H & Greene proved, but look at the others, Taylor, Lee, Drury & Murray.......hardly a ringing endorsement for outstanding appointments is it?
Name a chairman who has got every single managerial apppointment (or at leats most of them) correct... if only football was that easy.
DN and NK are housebuilders, they do not specialise in running a football club. They have learnt on the job, the hard way.
Totally agree & they saved our club from extinction post FL
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me granddad says leave every as it is he thinks craig will tell all players if there not happy then do the rite thing and p off
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But we employ a scout to run the rule over these players too.
Are we looking at a systemic failure?
And yet that scout was very successful under Dennis Greene and found us some real gems.
I do think that pretty much everything has gone wrong for us this season. It's been crap.
Who was the gems Pete ?
It's not that long ago mate, pretty sure you can work out who were the best players in that team without my help.
Off the top of my head these are the outstanding players from the Greene era .
Stryjeck , Marr , Ferguson, Agnew . Mills, Pidge , Garner, Steer , Felix , Southwell , Miller . Maybe I have missed some . Of those I have named apart from Southwell all were Greene's own recruitments , from information on Patter Southwell was recommended by Rob Scott .
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But we employ a scout to run the rule over these players too.
Are we looking at a systemic failure?
And yet that scout was very successful under Dennis Greene and found us some real gems.
I do think that pretty much everything has gone wrong for us this season. It's been crap.
Who was the gems Pete ?
It's not that long ago mate, pretty sure you can work out who were the best players in that team without my help.
Off the top of my head these are the outstanding players from the Greene era .
Stryjeck , Marr , Ferguson, Agnew . Mills, Pidge , Garner, Steer , Felix , Southwell , Miller . Maybe I have missed some . Of those I have named apart from Southwell all were Greene's own recruitments , from information on Patter Southwell was recommended by Rob Scott .
Makes you wonder how such talent failed to get promotion doesn't it?
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If only Stryjek had 6ft arms to stop THAT goal, eh...
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If you look back over our history, there are only 3 managers that have been with the club for more than 2 years, maybe we need to allow some stability and let someone develop at this level so we have a sound base to move forwards?
Yes, stick with Elliot, he's shown enough. Stability will be good for the club and can see it paying off.
Greene's first season here we missed out on the playoffs, next two we were in the playoffs.
Many Norwich fans wanted to get rid of Farke after his first season last season after a mid table finish, now they're top of the league and heading for the premier league without spending big money (relative to others that that level).
Yes I agree, but they will have to spend big to stay there for more than one season.
They have been there before now a couple of times only to be relegated.
I personally from being a regular fan there during the 80s would love to see them have a long tenure in the Premiership.
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They'l struggle as will Sheffield Utd, Leeds and whoever else goes up.
Fact is the players want to play at the big city clubs, the provincial clubs pick up the rest.
Hopefully SUFC go up, stick with a very honest squad of English players and don't flood it with mercenary foreign dross. Then do what Bournemouth did and consolidate season on season.
Unbelievable that we played them as equals not so long ago, a club no bigger than Wrexham, York or Stockport historically.
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But we employ a scout to run the rule over these players too.
Are we looking at a systemic failure?
And yet that scout was very successful under Dennis Greene and found us some real gems.
I do think that pretty much everything has gone wrong for us this season. It's been crap.
Who was the gems Pete ?
It's not that long ago mate, pretty sure you can work out who were the best players in that team without my help.
Off the top of my head these are the outstanding players from the Greene era .
Stryjeck , Marr , Ferguson, Agnew . Mills, Pidge , Garner, Steer , Felix , Southwell , Miller . Maybe I have missed some . Of those I have named apart from Southwell all were Greene's own recruitments , from information on Patter Southwell was recommended by Rob Scott .
So how did Greene find those players then? You're saying Richard had absolutely no hand in identifying any of those signings? Pretty extraordinary if true. You'd have to wonder a) why we employed him in the first place, b) why he got headhunted by Southport, and c) why we brought him back.
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I think Steer, Mills and Felix Greene had at previous clubs he managed.
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But we employ a scout to run the rule over these players too.
Are we looking at a systemic failure?
And yet that scout was very successful under Dennis Greene and found us some real gems.
I do think that pretty much everything has gone wrong for us this season. It's been crap.
Who was the gems Pete ?
It's not that long ago mate, pretty sure you can work out who were the best players in that team without my help.
Off the top of my head these are the outstanding players from the Greene era .
Stryjeck , Marr , Ferguson, Agnew . Mills, Pidge , Garner, Steer , Felix , Southwell , Miller . Maybe I have missed some . Of those I have named apart from Southwell all were Greene's own recruitments , from information on Patter Southwell was recommended by Rob Scott .
So how did Greene find those players then? You're saying Richard had absolutely no hand in identifying any of those signings? Pretty extraordinary if true. You'd have to wonder a) why we employed him in the first place, b) why he got headhunted by Southport, and c) why we brought him back.
The first 4 named were on loan from Sunderland (with others whose names I cannot recall ) through Greene's contact with Sunderland coaching staff .
Mills , Pidge , Felix and Steer had all played for Greene before . + Hilliard .
Miller and Garner along with a few others were in Cambs / Peterborough area where Greene recruited .
Fan warned on Imps , Grimsby and Cambridge U forums of his ex-clubs that Garner would be a problem disrupting he dressing room .
Not a good assessment as he gave 3 seasons great service as captain and scored as many goals from centre back than any of our strikers this season have scored .
Greene also recruited players from Essex area , inc the Towie star and Greene's nephew .
I could confidently say that the 8 players I named total wages would be lower than our top 8 players this season .
I can recall at one forum Greene commenting he was amazed that Renee Steer drove from London to play on the wage we payed him .
He came back to us after Southport reportedly no longer required his services .
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But we employ a scout to run the rule over these players too.
Are we looking at a systemic failure?
And yet that scout was very successful under Dennis Greene and found us some real gems.
I do think that pretty much everything has gone wrong for us this season. It's been crap.
Who was the gems Pete ?
It's not that long ago mate, pretty sure you can work out who were the best players in that team without my help.
Off the top of my head these are the outstanding players from the Greene era .
Stryjeck , Marr , Ferguson, Agnew . Mills, Pidge , Garner, Steer , Felix , Southwell , Miller . Maybe I have missed some . Of those I have named apart from Southwell all were Greene's own recruitments , from information on Patter Southwell was recommended by Rob Scott .
Makes you wonder how such talent failed to get promotion doesn't it?
If we had a team of that qaulity this season I think we would be looking forward to promotion .!
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I think so too, as a lot of people at the time said, good players poorly managed.
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I think so too, as a lot of people at the time said, good players poorly managed.
And still the best record of a Boston manager for decades discounting the HMRC funded period .