Pilgrims' Patter
The Forum => The B-Ark => Topic started by: Crazy Neil on January 04, 2017, 09:11:04 PM
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At last the opposition have been given an extension at YS instead of being given the Town End so make some noise lads and be the extra man :)
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It's not so good for those of us that have our regular spots in the York Street end though, is it?
Personally I think it's a bit unfair to force any regular home supporters, season ticket holders, etc., away from their preferred spots for the sake of supporters who will only be attending one game at York Street all season. Loyalty should be with the home crowd. But I do understand that money talks.
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On the other hand, is it not the same principal when the town end regulars get turfed out. There are arguably more supporters who frequent the townend than the york street end.
These decisions will never please everyone unfortunatley.
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90 per cent of the away grounds we visit don't segrega between home and away fans, and that would include visits from the bigger supported clubs like Stockport. By lifting the segregation restrictions on York Street you could arguably keep more people happy _ first come first served, but all of the home supporters would stand in their regular places and the away fans would mingle around us.
I know there have been arguments in the past about the ground losing its A grading if we removed the segregation and that would affect us if we got back in the league, but with the Quadrant around the corner we're safe to assume that York Street will never hold Football League matches again. Would it really matter therefore if we reduced the ground grading?
Any arguments around police advice, stewarding and crowd safety shouldn't really apply, as why would we be any different from the clubs that don't segregate?
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Really good point YSP, seems all a little OTT if you ask me, I stand on Spayne Rd and would be really annoyed if someone moved me.
But I do think the club are trying to keep the atmosphere going in the ground,with keeping the town end for our fans, Adam Murray seems to like the good atmosphere thing,he probably use's it as motivation tool for the players.
Its nice to think that the chairman is a proactive man,in trying to keep the Town End on match days,but sadly at you and others expense.
You are most welcome to come and stand with me if you wish.
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We have to segregate, it's part of the safety certificate for the ground. Without it, we play behind closed doors.
The alternative is to allow Stockport fans into all areas - can't see the stewards/police wanting that.
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We have to segregate, it's part of the safety certificate for the ground. Without it, we play behind closed doors.
The alternative is to allow Stockport fans into all areas - can't see the stewards/police wanting that.
there's always at least a dozen sat in the main stand behind us every year as it is, and the stewards do or say nothing about it.
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Do they behave themselves TTT ?
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Do they behave themselves TTT ?
they are often quite vocal, but not obscene
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We have to segregate, it's part of the safety certificate for the ground. Without it, we play behind closed doors.
The alternative is to allow Stockport fans into all areas - can't see the stewards/police wanting that.
This argument doesn't make sense. FC United have a similar sized ground to ourselves and bigger crowds. Yet home and away fans go through the same turnstile and there's no enforced segregation. Why then would that have a safety certificate when the same arrangements at York Street would affect ours?
You have to listen to police advice of course, but at the same time surely they're aware that 99.99 per cent of spectators are there to watch a football match as opposed to looking to cause trouble. There's no previous history as far as I'm aware of trouble between Boston and Stockport, therefore why would advice on Saturday s game suggest segregation?
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From memory, I'm sure we had the Town End last season v Stockport and they had the york street end. Don't think they brought that many.
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We have to segregate, it's part of the safety certificate for the ground. Without it, we play behind closed doors.
The alternative is to allow Stockport fans into all areas - can't see the stewards/police wanting that.
This argument doesn't make sense. FC United have a similar sized ground to ourselves and bigger crowds. Yet home and away fans go through the same turnstile and there's no enforced segregation. Why then would that have a safety certificate when the same arrangements at York Street would affect ours?
You have to listen to police advice of course, but at the same time surely they're aware that 99.99 per cent of spectators are there to watch a football match as opposed to looking to cause trouble. There's no previous history as far as I'm aware of trouble between Boston and Stockport, therefore why would advice on Saturday s game suggest segregation?
Every ground's safety certificate is different. Ours includes mandatory segregation - FCUM's won't do, but will includes details on where they CAN segregate on a match-by-match decision (mainly for local games, e.g. Stockport!).
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York Street has proper stands with dedicated entrances and exits, and each one of these stands will have a maximum safe capacity based on a number of factors. Segregation is likely enforced to ensure no stand exceeds its maximum safe capacity. It’s a bit different at grounds like North Ferriby where they don’t really have stands per se, just an open ground with terracing that doesn't have dedicated exits/vomitaries that could become dangerously congested.
As an example, if segregation wasn’t enforced, the narrow gate between the Main Stand and the York Street end could get very nasty if large numbers of people attempted to move around the ground. As far as I’m aware, the FC United ground has no such pinch points because it was designed quite differently.
Segregation is definitely the best option for a ground like ours, and it annoys me when people criticise the club (the safety board, really) for giving away the Town End – they have a responsibility to ensure no-one gets hurt and in a ground like ours there are far more potential trouble spots than you realise.
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Useful to know Pete B and a good post, though I'd disagree with you on the lack of pinch points at FC United. One of the walkways (e.g. underneath the large terrace stand behind the goal) is narrow at both ends - I think probably narrower than anything we've got at York Street. Add into the mix the fact that there's a bar underneath and you can easily see a situation in which lots of people are heading for those entry points at the same time - e.g. on the stroke of half-time. If that passes it's safety certificate I don't see why York Street wouldn't.
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Useful to know Pete B and a good post, though I'd disagree with you on the lack of pinch points at FC United. One of the walkways (e.g. underneath the large terrace stand behind the goal) is narrow at both ends - I think probably narrower than anything we've got at York Street. Add into the mix the fact that there's a bar underneath and you can easily see a situation in which lots of people are heading for those entry points at the same time - e.g. on the stroke of half-time. If that passes it's safety certificate I don't see why York Street wouldn't.
True. I've not been to FC United yet so I was only going from the pictures I've seen online, where the ground looks a lot easier to navigate than ours. I agree that it's frustrating that the green guide is interpreted differently when it comes to these things, but I still think segregation is right for YS. As I say, I think it's less about keeping home and away fans separate (after all, they mingle quite happily in the bar, which is always good to see) and more about just restricting general movement around the ground. It's not a very 'non-league' approach, of course - but we don't really have a non-league style ground! Plus it also allows the club to operate a different pricing structure for standing/sitting.
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228 away supporters according to twitter. Not convinced that those sort of numbers justified putting home fans noses out of joint. Right hand side of York Street end looked almost empty.
Looking forward to getting back to my regular place next match. Didn't enjoy the game as much from an unaccustomed angle and also didn't get to see a lot of the people normally around me.
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It was quite a following .. almost Gboros home gate :angel:
And I know Manc fans can make noise for 90 mins .
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228 away supporters according to twitter. Not convinced that those sort of numbers justified putting home fans noses out of joint. Right hand side of York Street end looked almost empty.
The normal away section holds 202...
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It would easily fit but suspect with only 2 bogs and a tiny tea hut, there's regs on that.
Halifax have a massive away end unused but when it is it can't be full due to lack of bogs.
Wigans away end concourse isn't big enough so that can't be full
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I expect that the wooden seats don't count towards capacity... but are still able to be used. Work that one out!
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Really disappointed in the club for closing the York Street end to home fans again on Saturday v Darlington. There are people in there who like that end, stand with their mates, etc, and don't enjoy matches as much from other vantage points. You get used to your own positions and are more comfortable in those surroundings. Seems like the york street enders are being treated like second class supporters as we're always the ones kicked out each time a big away following is expected. In the interests of fairness why not even things out and let the stands take it in turns? Couldn't we have tried accommodating the Darlo fans in Spayne Lane?
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Really disappointed in the club for closing the York Street end to home fans again on Saturday v Darlington. There are people in there who like that end, stand with their mates, etc, and don't enjoy matches as much from other vantage points. You get used to your own positions and are more comfortable in those surroundings. Seems like the york street enders are being treated like second class supporters as we're always the ones kicked out each time a big away following is expected. In the interests of fairness why not even things out and let the stands take it in turns? Couldn't we have tried accommodating the Darlo fans in Spayne Lane?
So you want to move the spayne road regulars? Its alright they wont moan about that. As for you saying its always york street enders that get turfed out. What utter rubbish, for quite a few seasons its always been the townend which has been vacated for away fans which usually has more home fans in than the york street end
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Really disappointed in the club for closing the York Street end to home fans again on Saturday v Darlington. There are people in there who like that end, stand with their mates, etc, and don't enjoy matches as much from other vantage points. You get used to your own positions and are more comfortable in those surroundings. Seems like the york street enders are being treated like second class supporters as we're always the ones kicked out each time a big away following is expected. In the interests of fairness why not even things out and let the stands take it in turns? Couldn't we have tried accommodating the Darlo fans in Spayne Lane?
So you want to move the spayne road regulars? Its alright they wont moan about that. As for you saying its always york street enders that get turfed out. What utter rubbish, for quite a few seasons its always been the townend which has been vacated for away fans which usually has more home fans in than the york street end
Of course the Spayne Road regulars would moan, but it should about treating all home fans equally, isn't it? It's less than a month ago that the York Street fans were turfed out when Stockport were in town. Now we're being turfed out again for Darlington. That's two games within barely a month where the regulars haven't been allowed to sand / sit in their regular spots. Not fair is it, when most of us have got season tickets which state "The York Street End" on them? Your argument about the Town End being vacated is historic. Yes, it used to happen. But how many times have the Town End been asked to move this season? So frankly I'm not talking rubbish.
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More people stand in the Town End than they do in the York Street end. It's about inconveniencing as few supporters as possible.
I'd be interested to see the comparison of season ticket holders in each stand!
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I'd say one fan is as important as the next. I also don't see the point of segregation at this level. I personally wouldn't put them in Spayne Road as its to longer stretch of the ground to pass over.
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"1) Main Stand; 2) Spayne Road; 3) Town End; 4) York Street" quote from Craig Singleton in terms of season ticket ranking...
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As an impartial observer and S/T holder who sits in the main stand it is beyond doubt that the town enders have had to give up their section far more times than the Y/S end over the years . You can't please everybody , If the visitors are allocated Spayne Terrace probably regulars in the YS stand would rightly be complaining that they were be cramped in their regular seats .
As an aside I 'm sure the Patter follower who confronted me on the York St car park Tues night will get satisfaction from this post . Thanks Richard , I'm an apostrophe user at last , your two minute lesson taught me what our education system failed to do in 70 years . :)
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How things have changed. Years ago it was the York St end that held the main home support. Blood was spilt in defending the End, Derby, Portsmouth, Kettering, Lincoln etc. This was in the bad old days of football violence when Boston had a very bad reputation.
Thankfully this is no longer the case, but makes me smile when I remember the old and famous chant, " you will never take the York Street " ;D ;D
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If we don't comply with the safety certificate the game would have to be played behind "closed doors" then we would all have a genuine greivance.
Putting away fans in spayne Road isn't an option as no segregation , no segregated toilets ,no refreshment facilities and no escape route in case of emergency.
I suppose their is, however, an argument over how access is gained to the pilgrim lounge?
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I suppose their is, however, an argument over how access is gained to the pilgrim lounge?
Through the front door? The areas segregated are inside the ground, not out...
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If we don't comply with the safety certificate the game would have to be played behind "closed doors" then we would all have a genuine greivance.
Putting away fans in spayne Road isn't an option as no segregation , no segregated toilets ,no refreshment facilities and no escape route in case of emergency.
I suppose their is, however, an argument over how access is gained to the pilgrim lounge?
I'm talking about the start of the season not sure why we even need to start with segregation
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If we don't comply with the safety certificate the game would have to be played behind "closed doors" then we would all have a genuine greivance.
Putting away fans in spayne Road isn't an option as no segregation , no segregated toilets ,no refreshment facilities and no escape route in case of emergency.
I suppose their is, however, an argument over how access is gained to the pilgrim lounge?
I'm talking about the start of the season not sure why we even need to start with segregation
SAFETY CERTIFICATE!!
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If we don't comply with the safety certificate the game would have to be played behind "closed doors" then we would all have a genuine greivance.
Putting away fans in spayne Road isn't an option as no segregation , no segregated toilets ,no refreshment facilities and no escape route in case of emergency.
I suppose their is, however, an argument over how access is gained to the pilgrim lounge?
I'm talking about the start of the season not sure why we even need to start with segregation
We have an A rated ground, which means we have to designate an areas (or areas) to be used for segregation. The corner of York Street that most teams use has a capacity of 202, so if a club expects more than 202 away fans to travel there are 2 options - move/extend the segregated area, or make it all-ticket. Financial reasons will say extend the area, especially if it means another 100 ticket sales...
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speaking to a security type on Tuesday night who had been speaking to the Darlo scout in the car park told me they would prob bring about 250
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If we don't comply with the safety certificate the game would have to be played behind "closed doors" then we would all have a genuine greivance.
Putting away fans in spayne Road isn't an option as no segregation , no segregated toilets ,no refreshment facilities and no escape route in case of emergency.
I suppose their is, however, an argument over how access is gained to the pilgrim lounge?
I'm talking about the start of the season not sure why we even need to start with segregation
We have an A rated ground, which means we have to designate an areas (or areas) to be used for segregation. The corner of York Street that most teams use has a capacity of 202, so if a club expects more than 202 away fans to travel there are 2 options - move/extend the segregated area, or make it all-ticket. Financial reasons will say extend the area, especially if it means another 100 ticket sales...
Having worked in non league, and on grading issues I'm well aware of grading system I just don't understand the desperation to be A rated. Admittedly I worked at evo stick level and were a B graded with a few simple upgrades to become A.
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If we don't comply with the safety certificate the game would have to be played behind "closed doors" then we would all have a genuine greivance.
Putting away fans in spayne Road isn't an option as no segregation , no segregated toilets ,no refreshment facilities and no escape route in case of emergency.
I suppose their is, however, an argument over how access is gained to the pilgrim lounge?
I'm talking about the start of the season not sure why we even need to start with segregation
We have an A rated ground, which means we have to designate an areas (or areas) to be used for segregation. The corner of York Street that most teams use has a capacity of 202, so if a club expects more than 202 away fans to travel there are 2 options - move/extend the segregated area, or make it all-ticket. Financial reasons will say extend the area, especially if it means another 100 ticket sales...
Having worked in non league, and on grading issues I'm well aware of grading system I just don't understand the desperation to be A rated. Admittedly I worked at evo stick level and were a B graded with a few simple upgrades to become A.
There's no desperation - we needed it to be in the Football League, and we've never lost it. Depends on the hassle to relax to a B grade...
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If we don't comply with the safety certificate the game would have to be played behind "closed doors" then we would all have a genuine greivance.
Putting away fans in spayne Road isn't an option as no segregation , no segregated toilets ,no refreshment facilities and no escape route in case of emergency.
I suppose their is, however, an argument over how access is gained to the pilgrim lounge?
I'm talking about the start of the season not sure why we even need to start with segregation
We have an A rated ground, which means we have to designate an areas (or areas) to be used for segregation. The corner of York Street that most teams use has a capacity of 202, so if a club expects more than 202 away fans to travel there are 2 options - move/extend the segregated area, or make it all-ticket. Financial reasons will say extend the area, especially if it means another 100 ticket sales...
Having worked in non league, and on grading issues I'm well aware of grading system I just don't understand the desperation to be A rated. Admittedly I worked at evo stick level and were a B graded with a few simple upgrades to become A.
There's no desperation - we needed it to be in the Football League, and we've never lost it. Depends on the hassle to relax to a B grade...
I find it very unlikely we'll be in the football league at York Street. It would be simple and wouldn't actually cost anything. You'd find it very difficult to get back, just don't see why we need it
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If we don't comply with the safety certificate the game would have to be played behind "closed doors" then we would all have a genuine greivance.
Putting away fans in spayne Road isn't an option as no segregation , no segregated toilets ,no refreshment facilities and no escape route in case of emergency.
I suppose their is, however, an argument over how access is gained to the pilgrim lounge?
I'm talking about the start of the season not sure why we even need to start with segregation
We have an A rated ground, which means we have to designate an areas (or areas) to be used for segregation. The corner of York Street that most teams use has a capacity of 202, so if a club expects more than 202 away fans to travel there are 2 options - move/extend the segregated area, or make it all-ticket. Financial reasons will say extend the area, especially if it means another 100 ticket sales...
Having worked in non league, and on grading issues I'm well aware of grading system I just don't understand the desperation to be A rated. Admittedly I worked at evo stick level and were a B graded with a few simple upgrades to become A.
There's no desperation - we needed it to be in the Football League, and we've never lost it. Depends on the hassle to relax to a B grade...
I find it very unlikely we'll be in the football league at York Street. It would be simple and wouldn't actually cost anything. You'd find it very difficult to get back, just don't see why we need it
It's more about what we had to be, rather than what we need now. It could be that it's easier to keep an A grade, than to be fully re-assessed for a B!
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Never known that but if you say so
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Hardly worth discussing considering we will be leaving YS at the end of the year !
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Thats the very point
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In the relatively recent past Darlington have had to travel to clubs like Consett, Shildon and West Allotment. I doubt any of those are A grade stadiums and maybe this proves the point that the A grading is a bit over the top for the level we're now at.
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There is a cost of a few grand for full re-assessment over grading, this was discussed in the local rag a few year back by Mr Newton, I believe is comment was its money thats needed on more important issues
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In the relatively recent past Darlington have had to travel to clubs like Consett, Shildon and West Allotment. I doubt any of those are A grade stadiums and maybe this proves the point that the A grading is a bit over the top for the level we're now at.
How many times have they played away at teams with over 1000 home fans? It's OK in the Northern League where they probably had the majority of the crowd, but the club needs to minimise the risk of trouble as much as possible.
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Trouble at Boston ha ha all we have nowadays is a few keyboard warriors yelling at away fans they know cant touch them
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In the relatively recent past Darlington have had to travel to clubs like Consett, Shildon and West Allotment. I doubt any of those are A grade stadiums and maybe this proves the point that the A grading is a bit over the top for the level we're now at.
very true and when you do get say 1000 away fans then you always have the segregation option
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Trouble at Boston ha ha all we have nowadays is a few keyboard warriors yelling at away fans they know cant touch them
There was trouble at North Ferriby last year, arrests were made. Not sure you seem to know what a "keyboard warrior" is, if you think it involves yelling at away fans...
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Trouble at Boston ha ha all we have nowadays is a few keyboard warriors yelling at away fans they know cant touch them
Were you at Ferriby?
If Boston drew Lincoln in the FA Cup at home, you can bet some of the part-time bellends who showed up to Ferriby (whose selective approach to attending games make me look like a dedicated hardcore season ticket holder) would be down there giving it the billy big bollocks and embarrassing themselves and the club.
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Trouble at Boston ha ha all we have nowadays is a few keyboard warriors yelling at away fans they know cant touch them
Were you at Ferriby?
If Boston drew Lincoln in the FA Cup at home, you can bet some of the part-time bellends who showed up to Ferriby (whose selective approach to attending games make me look like a dedicated hardcore season ticket holder) would be down there giving it the billy big bollocks and embarrassing themselves and the club.
Very true
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Trouble at Boston ha ha all we have nowadays is a few keyboard warriors yelling at away fans they know cant touch them
Were you at Ferriby?
If Boston drew Lincoln in the FA Cup at home, you can bet some of the part-time bellends who showed up to Ferriby (whose selective approach to attending games make me look like a dedicated hardcore season ticket holder) would be down there giving it the billy big bollocks and embarrassing themselves and the club.
Very true
Not most of the turds I see at home games who yell from 100 meters away but would run away and cry if anybody actually ran at them. And yes Ferriby i saw them starting trouble against some kids. How very brave