Pilgrims' Patter

The Forum => The B-Ark => Topic started by: Gus on July 20, 2011, 07:58:25 AM

Title: The Trust
Post by: Gus on July 20, 2011, 07:58:25 AM: Does it still exist?

I remember payng £50 for life membership but never received a membership card.

We certainly don't need the Trust but just wondered what happened to it and the funds.
Title: Re: The Trust
Post by: Bostonshire on July 20, 2011, 07:50:19 PM: Quote from: Gus on July 20, 2011, 07:58:25 AM
Does it still exist?

I remember payng £50 for life membership but never received a membership card.

We certainly don't need the Trust but just wondered what happened to it and the funds.

Every team needs some sort of trust.
Title: Re: The Trust
Post by: dubai camel on July 20, 2011, 08:55:30 PM: Thought aim was to hand over to a 'Trust' at some point in the future.....
Title: Re: The Trust
Post by: Tipps End Pilgrim on July 20, 2011, 09:54:08 PM: Gus,

We certainly do need a Trust. Not neccessarily active but waiting in the wings in case things go wrong. Once things have gone wrong, often it's too late to set something up.

My understanding is that Melvin Moxon decided to hand over all the Trust funds in return for 'shares'

The Trust was well run in the early days but Governance, something that should be at the heart of every Trust, fell by the wayside under the leadership of the final Board.

It would be nice to know the current position however.

DL
Title: Re: The Trust
Post by: John C on December 05, 2011, 08:40:25 PM: Just bumping this up as we were talking about the trust this weekend. Can anyone answer DL's question regarding what happened to any remaining money?
Title: Re: The Trust
Post by: Tipps End Pilgrim on December 05, 2011, 10:33:42 PM: John,

I still don't know the answer but I hope it still exists as you never know what will happen. Everything can be ok one minute and tits up the next. I would also like to know if the 'shares' were / are worth anything.

DL
Title: Re: The Trust
Post by: Adam on December 05, 2011, 11:50:20 PM: The share purchase in BUFC was essentially the last 'active' thing the Trust did and was the last of the funds. The FSA has recently accepted the Trust as dormant (effectively dead), but Mick Taylor I hope won't mind me mentioning had some interest in at least keeping it alive as a legal vehicle and completing the annual administrative tasks. If anyone would be interested in helping him out I'd say get in touch ASAP, as the reason it died was due to a lack of people coming forward to fill the boardroom. If you have 8-12 of you you can make progress imho, anything less and its a struggle. My personal opinion is that it is a great shame if it goes as it would take a lot of effort to credibly re-establish in the future, but that it's the only realistic option now. It would be great if a few people volunteered to take it forward out of the blue, but I'd also be amazed!
Title: Re: The Trust
Post by: noughtyforties on December 06, 2011, 07:09:52 AM: Sadly the Trust was doomed from the moment McFraud and his chums started their smear campaign against it. Shamefully there were people who actually believed the guttural bile that came out of his foul mouth and from there on in it was dead in the water. Only at Boston Utd between 2002-2006/7 could this happen........ However I've immense respect for Mel and the small band of regulars on The Trust board who stood up to the abuse and smears from that vile mob, at least they were seen to be doing something against the rotten regime, not climbing into bed with it.

I don't think its a bad idea to resurrect it in some form or other, people can get complacent and it only takes a short time for things to escalate from a problem to a crisis.........not that I could ever see DN allowing that to happen.
Title: Re: The Trust
Post by: oxo on December 06, 2011, 02:08:29 PM: I'm afraid Andy is right, it was very unpleasant to be abused and threatened by Evans and his puppets, including his drunken brother, but what was more disappointing was some 150 so called supporters and the local media stood by while it happened and never said a thing.
The question of any remaining monies, there is none, in fact our finance officer has spent a great deal of his own money putting things in order with the FSA.
It is true that Mick dearly wants to keep the Trust alive and would welcome any support so please contact him.
The £3000 of shares still exist and will be gifted back to the club unless the Trust is re-formed, or if any individual wants to purchase them and pay the money into the club I'm sure it can be worked out.
I too believe we are in the best possible hands with David and Neil but please god they don't walk under a bus one day, as there will probably be nobody there to catch the club.
I must add that David and Neil were fully behind the Trust, indeed David said that one day he hoped to hand over the club to a board made up of supporters of the club.
It is such a shame that the clubs supporters were not willing to get involved as they would have had a seat on the board by now. Is it too late?
Title: Re: The Trust
Post by: Mr Tickle on December 06, 2011, 04:23:13 PM: Hi Folks

Yes, I am currently in talks with the FSA to ensure tha the trust is not dissolved - For what purpose I am not 100% sure of as of yet. I just know that my signature is on the original document when we establisghed the Trust and deep down I still believe strongly in the model of a Supporters Trust. So much as passed under the bridge in the (near) 6 years of its existense and if the Trust does reform then I am certain it will not be in the same vein. As i remember it we formed the Trust as a reaction to those running the club back then and it was mainly about getting supporters to see what they were doing to the club - in that I think we achieved a goal. We may not have been so successful in many other areas but we gave it a bit of a go.

Many things changed with the arrival of the chestnuts: good things, bad things, and indifferent things. The Trust had no one to shout down or expose, nothing to react to (other than the constant bleatings of those that opposed us?), and in reality nothing left in the motivation tanks to keep us going. The Trust has flatlined over the last 2 years yet 1 or 2 people were strong enough to keep it breathing and I thank them for that.

We are in a new era now and it is time where the club is once again becoming (too many already "become") a respectful club based on integrity and hard work. The Chestnuts have injected an incredible amount of cash into the club and look like facing another year of deficit. How long can\will they continue to do this? Hopefully for a long time to come and at a profit - they deserve it.

Regardless of everything past and present I believe that the "not for profit" model of a Supporters Trust is a good thing and if run with the correct levels of bussiness acumen and local community understanding is more than capable of maintaining a sustainable football club. Whether or not a day will come where BUFC is part of this model at this point in time is indifferent to me. I like the way the club is being run now thank you very much and when you look closely at the club now it isn't that far off a Supporters Trust model already - It definitely isn't a profit making business!

As for membership of the Trust, then if you paid to be a 10 year member then congratulations you still are :-) And may I take this opportunity to thank all those that joined and all those that donated at the time. We worked hard annoying the buggery out of Sotnic, Evans, and the gravy gang, we had some good, bad, and indifferent events and managed to secure some shares from the club in exchange for some much needed money.

The Trust isn't dead, its just sleeping!

If the Trust is ever to be awakened it will not be reformed in the same image as before. Luckily things have changed and we all need to move on and catch up.

Please feel free to email me privately if you wish to discuss the future of the Trust as I am open to ideas, thoughts and suggestions. However, please note that I am very busy currently tying up one or 2 loose ends with the trust, very busy at work, and have no immediate plans to relaunch the Trust. And if or when the time soes come I do not see me being too closely attached to it - i've had my go, it is someone elses turn now!

SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL FOOTBALL CLUB

mick@tayloritex.co.uk
Title: Re: The Trust
Post by: noughtyforties on December 06, 2011, 07:51:52 PM: Good on you both, real friends of football in this town.

I'd love to help but you know I can't with the situation at home but you've got my 100% support if and when it gets going again.
Title: Re: The Trust
Post by: kingofnaves on December 06, 2011, 08:46:57 PM: Andy can you remember how much those framed programmes went for?I think Roo won ! ;D
Title: Re: The Trust
Post by: Louth Pilgrim on December 07, 2011, 11:15:05 AM: Thanks for these replies Mel & Mick.
Remind me - did the referred to abuse and threats by a drunken hanger on happen at a fans forum which would have been attended by some of the most loyal fans and nobody backed you up? I recall reading a forum posting of years gone by of Roo questioning the regime and getting shouted down by certain well known fans. Shocking.
Is it totally out of the question for the good people of BUSA to merge to become the Trust. No officers get any extra responsibilities but the Trust name is kept going.
Title: Re: The Trust
Post by: Ferret on December 07, 2011, 11:42:49 AM: The problem with a Trust/BUSA merger is one of legal position and function.

The Trust has to be a designated legal body - can't remember the name - and has to abide by all the legal matters that fall from that, some of which involve mandatory costs. The Trust should be there for a rainy day - saving hard to fund a future takeover of the club.

BUSA have no legal status, we collect and raise money - membership, golden goal, bus fares etc. - which is spent within a short time span on short term help to the club - new turnstiles, showers, gates etc - and providing a service to the fans - buses, children's party, discounts at the club shop and local businesses.
Title: Re: The Trust
Post by: dubai camel on December 07, 2011, 01:26:26 PM: Aren't the Chestnuts on record s saying that their preferred plan is to transfer the football club over to a supporters trust at some point in the future?
Title: Re: The Trust
Post by: kingofnaves on December 07, 2011, 03:52:15 PM: Love him or hate him! Us boston fans should be thankful for the help Roo did!!!
Title: Re: The Trust
Post by: noughtyforties on December 07, 2011, 06:50:05 PM: So is it worth a push to get interest in The Trust going again?

My worry is apathy and the smear job by McFraud and his cronies have made it almost beyond salvage.

Pat, you were involved in its infancy, don't you fancy another crack? Don't think I'm pushing here as I can't help for well known reasons but blokes like you and Mick are the kind of people with the savvy to make it work.
Title: Re: The Trust
Post by: John C on December 07, 2011, 06:55:55 PM: Thanks for all the replies. I thought to ask as I've got one of those ten year memberships. Were many sold?
Title: Re: The Trust
Post by: Myleftfoot on December 07, 2011, 09:00:14 PM: Quote from: noughtyforties on December 07, 2011, 06:50:05 PM
So is it worth a push to get interest in The Trust going again? Reasonable question!

My worry is apathy and the smear job by McFraud and his cronies have made it almost beyond salvage. Not very encouraging!

Pat, you were involved in its infancy, don't you fancy another crack? Don't think I'm pushing here as I can't help for well known reasons but blokes like you and Mick are the kind of people with the savvy to make it work. Get on with it, you're a good type. I'll say later I pushed it!!

;)
Title: Re: The Trust
Post by: Ferret on December 08, 2011, 02:35:07 PM: Quote from: noughtyforties on December 07, 2011, 06:50:05 PM
So is it worth a push to get interest in The Trust going again?

My worry is apathy and the smear job by McFraud and his cronies have made it almost beyond salvage.

Pat, you were involved in its infancy, don't you fancy another crack? Don't think I'm pushing here as I can't help for well known reasons but blokes like you and Mick are the kind of people with the savvy to make it work.

I don't think a certain officer of the Trust helped the cause by jumping up and down shouting "smear me , smear me"! A real shame that such enthusiasm and drive was eventually so misdirected.

I'd be happy to get involved....but there is a slight snag. I live and work 150 miles away (the new section of road near Peterborough doesn't cut that much off) and like you, my personal priorities have changed. When visiting Lincolnshire, my first priority is a visit to Welbourn near Leadenham, hence the probable Sat morning meetings would be a non-starter. I'm somewhat fraudulent at being the VP of BUSA at the moment, struggling to make any committee meetings on a weekday evening.

After a chat with Mick T a while ago, I called in and spoke with Supporters Direct to discuss their view on a Trust/BUSA combined body......they weren't in favour and very much preferred a separate legal entity to be the Trust and perform the function of a Trust only.

It does amaze me that a club with our following, struggles to garnish support for such ventures. BUSA is run by a very small amount of people and I fear any Trust would also suffer from a lack of interest.....most fans see the club as being in a safe pair of hands at the moment, not the turmoil that was prevalent when the initial Trust kicked off. That said, I think the reincarnation of the Trust can only be a good thing and would be happy to support in whatever way I can.
Title: Re: The Trust
Post by: Oakham Pilgrim on December 08, 2011, 04:30:50 PM: As someone who was one of the agitators in the early days of the trust, and who was still there, more or less, as things ground to a halt (I used to go to regional meetings on behalf of the trust as, living where I do, most of them were fairly close - and I still keep in touch with some of the people from other clubs) I can say, as Pat has, that the main problem was lack of support. You can't keep banging your head against a brick wall trying to keep something going with the same handful of people doing everything all the time. We didn't get that much support when the previous corrupt regime was in place, so the moment our knights in shining armour came along what little we had drained away. Good job though BUSA does, I still believe that a trust ought to be in place. But past experience doesn't encourage me, if I'm honest. And in the wider world it's not all roses. I know that Rams Trust at Derby have problems, even from their much bigger membership, finding people willing to serve on the committee.
Title: Re: The Trust
Post by: RamMalc on December 08, 2011, 05:41:48 PM: In fairness OP the problems with Rams Trust are far more than just apathy , political scheming and a complete mistrust by the organised protest body that eventually got rid of the crooks at Derby are still very remembered . On a few lists i'm member of the mere name RamsTrust is banned because of the deep splits still among the fans

i was a member of the Trust here but let it lapse as thought it had died . If it did restart i'd be happy to help how i could timewise but think at least a couple of the original board need to be active to help and new blood at least initially
Title: Re: The Trust
Post by: Oakham Pilgrim on December 08, 2011, 07:02:07 PM: I am aware of what you say, RamMalc (have probably never said here that my other team has always been DCFC - I think I'm still a member of Rams Trust as they seem to keep on adding years to your membership - so I always had a good chat with their people at regional meetings). But, even more, it still shows the problem of getting and keeping people involved in trusts without factions appearing or apathy setting in (or, in BUFC's case, it seemed as if apathy was there with the majority from the start!).
Title: Re: The Trust
Post by: Scouse Pilgrim on December 29, 2011, 05:25:38 PM: Quote from: oxo on December 06, 2011, 02:08:29 PM
The £3000 of shares still exist and will be gifted back to the club unless the Trust is re-formed, or if any individual wants to purchase them and pay the money into the club I'm sure it can be worked out.
I too believe we are in the best possible hands with David and Neil but please god they don't walk under a bus one day, as there will probably be nobody there to catch the club.

A helpful reminder regarding any gifting of shares. When the Trust was formed it is written that any assets accruing to the Trust on dissolution would be given to other similar not for profit sporting organisations - not back to the football club. Moreso when you consider that there is a large creditor on the balance sheet of Boston United called Lavaflow Ltd.
Title: Re: The Trust
Post by: Ferret on December 30, 2011, 09:19:34 AM: Interesting name from the past.....still going, all paperwork submitted to Company House and now based in Scunthorpe with a declared capital of £656?

Can't be @rsed to spend a pound of my capital to find out who is associated with it......
Title: Re: The Trust
Post by: Ken Fox on December 30, 2011, 09:57:11 AM: Quote from: Ferret on December 30, 2011, 09:19:34 AM
Interesting name from the past.....still going, all paperwork submitted to Company House and now based in Scunthorpe with a declared capital of £656?

Can't be @rsed to spend a pound of my capital to find out who is associated with it......

I seem to remember that David Newton bought Lavaflow to become the majority shareholder in Boston United.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_conf/7411041.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_conf/7411041.stm)

See also:

http://companycheck.co.uk/company/04580332 (http://companycheck.co.uk/company/04580332)
Title: Re: The Trust
Post by: Ferret on December 30, 2011, 01:22:56 PM: Good point Ken....I'd forgotten about that. Explains why all the accounts etc are up to date!
Title: Re: The Trust
Post by: Scouse Pilgrim on December 30, 2011, 02:16:05 PM: If you both did your homework I think you will find that he bought Boston United FC shares from Lavaflow to gain overall control of the club.

The 2008 accounts show a current debt of £1,065,838 owed within a year

This increases to £1,292,414 in 2009

and to £1,580,520 in 2010.

The increases due to Mr Newton's generosity presumably - i.e. loans he has made to BUFC.

There is still a large debt at BUFC and it must be owed to someone.

Anyway now Christopher Shane Cook is a director and using this forum to promote the club perhaps he will explain to the fans about the large debt on BUFC's balance sheet which is due for payment within 12 months. To whom does the club owe such large sums of money Chris? Have you asked these questions at Board level now you are on it? Thanks

PS. Mr Melvin Moxon why did you and your Trust Board sanction the purchase of £3,000 of worthless BUFC shares? Have you heard of due diligence and accountability to your membership (whose money much of this was)?
Title: Re: The Trust
Post by: Ferret on December 30, 2011, 02:44:23 PM: Too old for homework Mark.....

You going to the game on the 14th? Not be that far for you to travel?
Title: Re: The Trust
Post by: Scouse Pilgrim on December 30, 2011, 03:41:50 PM: Quote from: Adam Hildred on December 05, 2011, 11:50:20 PM
The FSA has recently accepted the Trust as dormant (effectively dead),

Dormant means dormant dear boy or how else would dormant animals reawake after the winter chill?
Title: Re: The Trust
Post by: Ed Kandi on December 30, 2011, 04:44:25 PM: Dormant animals wake up slowly...the Rooster never sleeps :dan
Title: Re: The Trust
Post by: nh83 on December 30, 2011, 05:00:24 PM: the club came out of cva debt free all the creditors were paid off. The debt the club is in now is after the cva .
Title: Re: The Trust
Post by: Tash on December 30, 2011, 05:11:29 PM: or right or right carm down
Title: Re: The Trust
Post by: Bostonshire on December 30, 2011, 07:03:03 PM: As guess would have it that the 1mil was owed to lava flow wich Mr Newton took over, Guess that means the dept is owed to Mr Newton.

Im sure i read somewhere that this was owed to sotnik and his chums (Money they spent when running the club) At a guess thou there must have been some sort of deal when the take over was done to where Mr Newton took control of this debt.
Title: Re: The Trust
Post by: noughtyforties on December 30, 2011, 07:18:25 PM: It seems obscene and grotesque that Dave Newton has put BUFC back on the right track and yet we as a club still owe a fortune to chancers like Sotnick,Lavafolw,Standing Alone et al who basically came in with one aim.......to feck the club over for their own personal gain......why can't they be responsible for that debt?
Title: Re: The Trust
Post by: scottbufc on December 30, 2011, 09:10:00 PM: http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/jonathan-sotnick/7/37b/aa7

The company Sotnick is CEO now are registered to a Boston address...DODGY.
Title: Re: The Trust
Post by: kingofnaves on December 30, 2011, 09:29:20 PM: What's the address?
Title: Re: The Trust
Post by: Ken Fox on December 30, 2011, 09:38:12 PM: Quote from: kingofnaves on December 30, 2011, 09:29:20 PM
What's the address?

20 SPAYNE ROAD,
BOSTON
LINCS
PE21 6JP

See: http://companycheck.co.uk/company/06827901 (http://companycheck.co.uk/company/06827901)
Title: Re: The Trust
Post by: Ken Fox on December 30, 2011, 09:49:09 PM: Quote from: noughtyforties on December 30, 2011, 07:18:25 PM
It seems obscene and grotesque that Dave Newton has put BUFC back on the right track and yet we as a club still owe a fortune to chancers like Sotnick,Lavafolw,Standing Alone et al who basically came in with one aim.......to feck the club over for their own personal gain......why can't they be responsible for that debt?

How do you work that out?! Surely the club don't owe any money to any "chancers". David Newton bought Lavaflow. He now owns it entirely. The previous owners have absolutely nothing to do with Lavaflow any more.
Title: Re: The Trust
Post by: kingofnaves on December 30, 2011, 09:49:40 PM: http://whatconsumer.co.uk/forum/scam-alerts/15403-justin-rushworth-scam-alert.html
Same address as Mr Rushworth!
Title: Re: The Trust
Post by: Bostonshire on December 30, 2011, 11:21:26 PM: Quote from: Ken Fox on December 30, 2011, 09:49:09 PM
Quote from: noughtyforties on December 30, 2011, 07:18:25 PM
It seems obscene and grotesque that Dave Newton has put BUFC back on the right track and yet we as a club still owe a fortune to chancers like Sotnick,Lavafolw,Standing Alone et al who basically came in with one aim.......to feck the club over for their own personal gain......why can't they be responsible for that debt?

How do you work that out?! Surely the club don't owe any money to any "chancers". David Newton bought Lavaflow. He now owns it entirely. The previous owners have absolutely nothing to do with Lavaflow any more.

The point i treid to make above
Title: Re: The Trust
Post by: qwerty on December 31, 2011, 10:14:21 AM: Quote from: Ken Fox on December 30, 2011, 09:38:12 PM
Quote from: kingofnaves on December 30, 2011, 09:29:20 PM
What's the address?

20 SPAYNE ROAD,
BOSTON
LINCS
PE21 6JP

See: http://companycheck.co.uk/company/06827901 (http://companycheck.co.uk/company/06827901)

As posted on another thread, this is all you need to know about Justin Rushworth of Spayne Road.

http://www.bufc.drfox.org.uk/forum/index.php?topic=2775.msg35903#msg35903

Looks like Sotnick's new attempt at business is a true con.

http://truegoldinvestments.com/

Buying Gold on margin for a 'quick profit' is the sure fire way to lose your investors capital, Gold is money and should be treated as money and not a commodity.
Title: Re: The Trust
Post by: nh83 on December 31, 2011, 11:23:41 AM: Lavaflow were creditors in the CVA. As I said before, all debts were cleared after we exited CVA. All current debts have been occurred after the CVA. Included in this debt is a £288,106 loss for the last trading year, working over at a loss of £5,540.50 per week as of the last balance sheet.
Title: Re: The Trust
Post by: Scouse Pilgrim on January 04, 2012, 02:58:37 PM: Lavaflow were not named as creditors in the CVA - they agreed not to be included and as a result the money they "invested/loaned" to BUFC was not in there (over £1 million we are told).

There is however a large creditor (debt) on the BUFC balance sheet as at 2008 of over £1 million.
Title: Re: The Trust
Post by: Tash on January 04, 2012, 03:38:54 PM: Quote from: Scouse Pilgrim on January 04, 2012, 02:58:37 PM
Lavaflow were not named as creditors in the CVA - they agreed not to be included and as a result the money they "invested/loaned" to BUFC was not in there (over £1 million we are told).

There is however a large creditor (debt) on the BUFC balance sheet as at 2008 of over £1 million.

Is it there now?
Title: Re: The Trust
Post by: Scouse Pilgrim on January 04, 2012, 03:54:22 PM: oh yes.

The 2008 accounts show a current debt of £1,065,838 owed within a year

This increases to £1,292,414 in 2009

and to £1,580,520 in 2010.