Pilgrims' Patter
The Forum => The B-Ark => Topic started by: Carl Newell on April 09, 2012, 02:43:56 PM
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Alot has been said over the season regarding the pros and cons of the gaffers abilities, it would be intreresting to see what the majority view of say 50 posters was by finishing the post with a yes or a no.
For me they have a done ok with the resources available. When the gaffers came in they improved on what S and H were doing giving Semple and Yates more freedom and involving the reserves with the first team squad it was bizarre to see how the reserves were ignored by S and H. We finished last season 1st in the form table.
Whoever came in the summer was always going to have a hard job. Losing players of the calibre of Pearson, Church, Yates, Murphy, Dudfield and SWD and a reduced budget made finding a decent squad a big challenge. JL has said that he wanted Ross in the summer and probably missed out on other players and at the start of the season the squad wasn't really good enough. Over the course of the season the squad has improved has as the style of football.
Cannoville and Lee have tried to build for the future by showing a big interest in the youth team and the reserves with the reserves now also mostly playing 433.
The team still doesn't seem to have settled although hopefully this will come with time. Inconsistantcy has also been a problem; still waiting for three wins in a row this season.
For me YES they should be given another chance next season but results most improve next season.
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Yes
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Yes
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No!
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No, no and no again!
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Only counts for one no Andy...
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Yes
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Got to be YES . Never known Chestnuts demolish a house when good fondations have been laid .
Even the" manager out" brigade cannot think of anyone better.
Do we really what to follow the Lincoln route and change managers on a yearly basis ?
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Yes
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Managers are only as good as the tools,and money,they are given to work with....
Change the managers and we go back to square one....
However if they are retained they need to show that they have learnt from their mistakes (ie The Joachim Factor)....
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How do the budgets of S & H compare to L & C?
For a club on a tight budget how come we keep having joint managers?
Not sure about them ..... can go or stay
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NO, If you are content to stick in the lower reaches of this league you will want to keep them, I would like to see the club have some ambition to get out of this league by appointing a manager who can manage a non league club, And no GHM , I do not know who to bring in as manager, that is up to the directors, I'm just a paying fan who wants to see the club do well on the field and off it, GHM a good team starts with a GOOD manager overseeing the squad.
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Ceamboy should King Kenny be given another year?
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Ceamboy with the money he,s put in the club Newton will be even keener than you and I
for the club to succed . Far better business brain than us supporters so he will come up with the correct answer .
If he does remove the present managers what happens at the end of nexr season if we miss the play-offs ?
I think thats the question Dave will be pondering .
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Yes, but on the undertsanding that there will be a review in November by which time we must be in a play off position
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Yes
A new manager with Non League experience will not guarantee success, just look around the world of football for plenty of examples.
The second half of the season has seen major improvements although a lack of consistency at times. They need to sign the majority of the current squad early and move on the weaker ones. Then make 2 or 3 key signings of players at the prime of their careers to complement the young up and coming players and give the squad a little more depth. If they do this I think we will put in a much stronger challenge next season.
As others have suggested, the situation can be reviewed before Christmas.
Having perservered this long it would be foolish to ditch them just as things are improving.
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No. Things were bad, they improved and went bad again. Lessons were not learnt.
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YES from me, Jason and Lee are learning fast and we can't keep changing managers and going back to square one all the time.. Whatever we all think we can rely on Mr Newton to do his best for our club.
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Can't decide, will back them with my all if they are to be managers. We've played some good stuff at times this year, mainly on the road, which has been strange. Can they pull a couple of big non league names out the hat to push us up a level?
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I'm another can't decide.I like Jase and Lee,i think they are both decent men who care a lot about BUFC,i'm just not sure they can bring in the quality of player we need.One thing is certain,we can't afford another summer like the last one.We need 3/4 quality signings,something to fire the fans imagination,or season ticket sales and attendances will suffer.
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Yes. Promising young set of managers. Decision should not be made on a 'how have they done' basis - that's only part of assessing how they might be expected to perform in the future, which is the real issue. And we really won't get anyone better.
The Chestnuts are astute and we are are relatively big club for this level, but in the four times the job has come up under them we've only once attracted candidates better than JL/LC, they're now at Grimsby and in all honesty their situation of having not been offered contracts by Ilkeston following promotion was a freak case. Even if you don't think they'll do very well next year, there's little grounds for thinking we'll attract anyone particularly better.
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A lot will depend on the summer, if we have another nightmare one and we start like we did this season then I dont think they'll last the season.
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They do themselves no favours when they take off Spence. At Droylsden we had just equalised and Spence was terrifying them, What did they do but take him off and replace him with the young lad from Lincoln United, result? they score and we lose.
Today we get back into the game, what happens? Spence is replaced by Ryan Semple when it was clear that it should have been Newsham coming off. Sorry but decisions like these do not fill me with confidence.
Having said all that I was pleased by the second half effort, and must say that the young youth team lad looks a great prospect. Also well done to the faithful who sang from start to finish, great support.
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After a lot of silent contemplation - No!
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I think it's quite a tricky decision, but you have to remember David Newton is better placed to make it than most of us.
He sees them behind-the-scenes, sees things we don't, how they work, how they conduct themselves etc, exactly what budget they are working with.
What I like about them is that they never complain about referees nor do they keep banging on about small budgets like some managers do.
In flashes, in the second half they've shown real potential. Also, many clubs have been rewarded by taking a long-term view and stuck with managers after unspectacular starts....on that basis I'm a YES for them.
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It has to be no. This has been a very poor league this year.
If we had had a half decent side at the start of the year we would have been in the play offs, but lazy management cost us big time.
As I have said somewhere else on the patter I dont think DN has a choice. He is a hard headed business man who must know that if he keeps these two there will be little interest, low crowds, leading to very dangerous times. There must be lots of managers out there desperate for a chance to manage one of the better non league clubs. I know finance will always be a problem for us, but thats just current economics for everybody.
I will not be getting a season ticket if these managers are reappointed, and it seems I am definitly not the only one.
I considered myself a true fan, and will be bitterly disappointed and let down by DN if he does reappoint them.
Until the end of the season I would not put down details of who I think should be retained, but it would only be 6 of the current squad. I think we need at least 12 new players for next year. The sooner a new manager is appointed the better.
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If pre seaon is anything like last seasons then I would have to say no.
It was dull and boring with very uninspiring sigings, not alot to get the mouth watering.
On the other hand maybe they should be given this season to impress but my main concern is that attendances will drop even more.
Would really like these two to be successful but with an apparent lack of contacts Im not so sure.
Overall perhaps they should be given till November to see what they can do.
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What about till jan, I still feel these 2 will have more to offer,
The current team i think next season if kept together is a top 8 team but no more.
At the begining of this season we had a team no better than lets just try and get a mid table place,
Over the summer could just see the couple of changes needed to turn that top 8 into a top 5 team.
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Yes. We have the basis of a good team, as has been shown by the performances since the turn of the year.
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Last season Southport were only saved from the BSN by the infamous so called AGM CUP .
Calls for the managers (Liam Watson ) sacking was ignored by the chairman .
This season they,re challanging for the play-offs , same manager and many of the same players .
Anyone not wanting to keep the present pair and not able to think of a replacement
might wish to consider the Eastwood manager for the job.
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Yes. With a years experience and having learnt from some of the mistakes I think we'll see an improvement on this season, and tbh despite being poor for large parts we are not a million miles away from the play-offs so don't need much of an improvement. If things aren't going well it can be reviewed mid-season. It's a close call IMO though.
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So far then, 15 yes, 7 no.
On reflection though, I believe they have had a "tricky" budget to work with, so make that 16. YES
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So far many of the yes voters have put a case to explain why they think the present managers should retain their jobs .
It would be helpful for the NO cause if some one could give a outline of the attributes
they would look for in a new manager.
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I think it's quite a tricky decision, but you have to remember David Newton is better placed to make it than most of us.
He sees them behind-the-scenes, sees things we don't, how they work, how they conduct themselves etc, exactly what budget they are working with.
What I like about them is that they never complain about referees nor do they keep banging on about small budgets like some managers do.
In flashes, in the second half they've shown real potential. Also, many clubs have been rewarded by taking a long-term view and stuck with managers after unspectacular starts....on that basis I'm a YES for them.
After what has gone before, that may go against them. A younger me couldn't abide Neil Thompson, watching him stand arms folded while team after team tore us apart. With 'him' and Scott we've got used to those that jump up and down and tout the media. It creates an interest and hides us from those dull games where we are just not good enough.
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no
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Really do want to give them more time. But...
Monday as an example, terrible then a great 'performance' to get us back in it. But ultimately no points and nothing gained.
Go back to the original job spec, experience at this level was a key requirement and I think it still is and has been demonstrated this season more than ever. A more experienced guy would have maybe not made the daft signings at the beginning, if he did then he would have changed it much sooner.
My view is not a 'we are bigger than this' or 'we deserve more as fans' etc. but simply we don't have a management team that gave me the confidence at the start of the season that they could deliver promotion and what has been put on results wise this season gives me no more confidence that next season will be any different.
Change it, managers need time granted BUT you should also know when to cut your losses.
It's a no.
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I think its a close call too and as Joe 65 says David Newton is going to have access to information we don't to make the choice so I'll back whatever he does.
There seems to be a consensus as to what type of players we need (experienced centre half, tackling midfielder, big centre forward) so I'd be asking Lee and Canoville who they were thinking of bringing in for these positions for the money we have and making a judgement on that.
My concern about getting rid is that I don't want to become a club that goes through managers all the time. Also who would come? Ideally you would want someone who would bring a few players (like S and H) and has done well in the BSN and the Evostick Premier. Does that restrict to a few fairly local teams? I've not looked but are there any outstanding candidates?
So its a yes for me, albeit with expectations that next season will be an improvement on this clearly laid down
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I think next year we will see another cut in the budget so options for a new manager/players will be limited so I think it's a yes from me. This could be our level for a few more seasons yet. At least we still have a team to support which is more than may be said for some poor buggers.
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Really do want to give them more time. But...
Monday as an example, terrible then a great 'performance' to get us back in it. But ultimately no points and nothing gained.
I'm in the same boat, I'm not sure we can afford another year of nearly. Some footballers are nearly footballers and some managers are the same. Those that have it but just don't get that special mix. S&H just seem to have an ability to turn things from defeat to win from nothing. I'm yet to see us take a game by the scruff of the neck and say, feck it we're gonna win this. We've seen them find some decent players this year, but we're yet to see a decent team.
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Exactly and another year of nearly is going to do what to the attendances and therefore budget?
The possibility of a prolonged 'wilderness' period is only an apathetic season away...
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If the twos Lees didn't get offered new deals at the end of the season that would probably mean another summer of rebuilding with the new manager possibly bringing in his own players and ideas and if he didn't perform how fans wanted him to by reaching the play offs would that mean fans wanting another new manager?
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Do we have to offer them a deal for the whole of next season? Why not offer them a contract until Christmas, with a clause giving us the option of extending beyond that depending on league position. That would at least focus JL and LC on getting the summer signings right this time around.
For me, we've left it too late to completely change the manager now. If we were going to do it then we should have done it 3-4 weeks ago, giving any new appointment the opportunity to assess the squad before the end of the season and work out which players deserved a new deal. If we do it now and have no manager in place at the start of the summer, there'd be a real danger of our better players getting picked over by other clubs and we'd be playing catchup again.
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cannovile should be given a playing contract only. he is only 31 and has a couple of years left quite comfortably as a player.
during pre-season jason lee showed his lack of experience which resulted in the rest of this season being over before it even started. the only way to really judge if he has learnt anything is to give him another pre-season. i do not think bringing in another manager would bring promotion as the playing budget to compete with the likes of gainsborough and guiseley is not there. if jason lee has not learnt anything we could be facing relegation next season, with this season finishing as it is we could be only avoiding relegation by only 2,3 or 4 points this time.
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As I have said on another thread move Canners on . Seems too injury prone to be kept on as a player . Let Lee get an assistant with BSN experience .
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i doubt anyone with any experience would want to be jl's assistant.
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Disagree there wyp, many would jump at it . Many managerial appointments come about by managers being replaced by an assistant appointed by the out going manager.
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I've been on the fence for a while on this issue. I have to admit that I wasn't overly thrilled when they got the gig last summer and, like many, was then disappointed with a number of the summer signings. As the season progressed, we seemed to be gradually improving, bar a bumpy Christmas period, and we discovered a formation that suited us, but after the last few games I'm not sure we're anywhere near competing with the best in this league.
We overachieved last season and because, of the loss of such key players, I expected us to take a couple of steps backwards. However, we have the top two left to play and if we lose both games then we could find ourselves in the bottom half. Tommy Taylor put together a brand new team at short notice that finished 10th in 2008, which is a benchmark that we should really at least be able to match this season.
I don't really see the merit in the "review the situation in (say) November" argument. What happens if we decide to replace them? Someone new would then be working with a team that's not his, and then we could find ourselves meandering through another season in mid-table as the new guy sorts things out. I'd rather whoever builds the team in the summer be given all (or most) of next season to prove their worth.
I agree with those who don't want us to be a club that changes managers frequently and I understand that young managers will make mistakes and will also need time to learn their trade. There's no guarantee, either, that a new man coming in during the summer will necessarily do any better. But if you were to ask me the question "Do I believe that next season will be any better than this with the current management?", then my honest answer would be no.
As such, I think it's time for a change. Of course, if they are in charge then I hope they prove me wrong and I, for one, will be renewing my season ticket regardless.
Also, with regard to who I'd suggest as a replacement, how about Martin Foyle? He is currently (non-contract) manager of Northwich Victoria who, as has been mentioned elsewhere, will be kicked out of the NPL at the end of the season. Chances are that he won't want to hang around if they end up in the North West Counties League. Port Vale fans speak highly of the job he did there and he took York to Wembley.
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We seem to pool resources from either Nottingham or Sheffield areas so we should be looking at someone that will know those areas, if we make a change.
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Yes for me
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I think the joint managers have done a fair job,they will have learned alot about management and should improve given time,however not at our club, this has been a poor league with very few exceptional sides and we should have been in a play off position at least. The lack of knowledge of the non league scene has resulted in a Boston old boys team which has failed to live up to the expectations of the majority of fans. no way will we appoint two mangers and get rid of them in November as the costs of doing so would be counter productive,so it is better to start the season with a new manager,new players and new ideas and return the feel good factor to the town.
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Statement at 5pm. Staying or going?
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Craig's Twitter suggests we will get an answer at 5pm today.
I think that the decision has been made now - after consecutive defeats and a few lacklustre performances - suggests that JL/LC will be departing.
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Lee in. Canners out!
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Now official.
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:-[ oh dear
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>:(
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I don't see why one should go and the other remain.To me it just looks like Canners has been made the scapegoat.I for one wish him the best of luck for the future,he has been a top player for us until injury/fitness took their toll.
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What a strange decision, however, we now know who the manager will be, but I do wonder who his assistant will be, indeed,has something happened between them resulting in Canners being pushed?
I just hope to god that Lee shows more urgency than he did last season to put a squad together over the summer. Hope his new assistant has more ideas of who we need, and has the contacts to get them.
David asks us to get behind Lee and the team, but I feel only quality signings will make that happen amongst the missing 300. As for me, yes I will as I always do but if there is no improvement I will also let my feelings be known. Perhaps some good news regarding a new ground would be the thing to galvanise all of us.
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What a load of bo**ocks !!.. Im extrememly disappointed, confused and fairly angered at this decision. The club is going nowhere with Jason in charge. Im sorry, but he is NOT the man to lead us to promotion next season, does now make me wonder whether Mr Newton is happy with staying in the Blue Square North !.
We have lost 6 of our last 10 league matches, the football has been rather shambolic and to give Jason sole management for next season, your having a laugh !
I will still support Boston United like I have done for the last 25 years BUT you have made a mistake here David.
I really do hope they prove me wrong.
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Pleased as this is what I suggested on this thread yesterday .
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What a strange decision, however, we now know who the manager will be, but I do wonder who his assistant will be, indeed,has something happened between them resulting in Canners being pushed?
I just hope to god that Lee shows more urgency than he did last season to put a squad together over the summer. Hope his new assistant has more ideas of who we need, and has the contacts to get them.
David asks us to get behind Lee and the team, but I feel only quality signings will make that happen amongst the missing 300. As for me, yes I will as I always do but if there is no improvement I will also let my feelings be known. Perhaps some good news regarding a new ground would be the thing to galvanise all of us.
If I was a betting man I would say it could be Laurie Dudfield.
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Good call Tash , but I am sticking with my prediction on Patter on Saturday , that is MICKY NUTTAL.
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Good decision.
Let's get behind Jason and support him all the way.
DL
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I guess the assistant is already at the club! Could it be Freeman,Bazza,Maddison or even Nick the steward?
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Underwhelmed. I can see the reasoning but really this season has done nothing to make me think it will be any different next as I said in my previous post.
A flying start will change peoples minds, get it even half wrong and we will drop numbers off the gate far sooner than this season.
And to think I regard myself as one of the positive ones on here!!!
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How about Mr F Coach, understand he's highly thought of
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The statement on the official site is contradictory as the reason for Cannovile leaving is stated as 'financial' constraints but then goes on to state that we will be looking for an assistant manager who would presumably be looking for a similar salary. Maybe they were both offered a performance related pay decrease and only JL was happy to accept; I suppose JL has made much more money than LC playing football and doesn't 'need' the money. Another possibility could be that (as suggested by others) we are going to go for the 'cheap' option such as Maddison, Bazza or Nuttell. In hindsight IF we are going for someone new o he club this may not be a bad move as JL and LC were close friends before getting the job they were probably associated with same group of contacts within the game, maybe a new unknown face could bring new contacts nd ideas.
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I think everyone knows who his assistant is.......its the fitness coach
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Woe, Woe and thrice Woe is me. I think this supports my theory that we have to be satisfied with middle of the ta pay ble positions for the next 3/4 seasons until finances and ground issues are resolved. The first half dozen games of next season will have to be played before any of us will have any idea how things may turn out. Problem is I fear that many, including myself, will not turn up for home games if something else more intersting turns up. That means reduced revenue.
Perhaps the question is, are people not in favour of the appointment because of the apparent lack of ambition or because they think, after watching this seasons performance, that JL is just no good at the job.
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It disappoints me that some seem to be accusing David Newton of a lack of ambition by appointing Jason Lee.
This is insulting in the extreme to someone who has poured (based on the last fans' forum) more than a million pounds of his money into the club.
Unlike some here, he takes a reasoned, long-term view of how to build a football club and in my eyes has, and continues to do, a fantastic job.
Anyone who has seen him talk at fans forums would know he is hugely ambitious for the club - but he won't bankrupt it trying to chase such ambitions.
BTW, Sir Alex Ferguson finished mid-table in his first two years at Man United - good job the United board didn't think like some on here!!!
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It disappoints me that some seem to be accusing David Newton of a lack of ambition by appointing Jason Lee.
This is insulting in the extreme to someone who has poured (based on the last fans' forum) more than a million pounds of his money into the club.
Unlike some here, he takes a reasoned, long-term view of how to build a football club and in my eyes has, and continues to do, a fantastic job.
Anyone who has seen him talk at fans forums would know he is hugely ambitious for the club - but he won't bankrupt it trying to chase such ambitions.
BTW, Sir Alex Ferguson finished mid-table in his first two years at Man United - good job the United board didn't think like some on here!!!
Good post.
A good football chairman like Dave Newton essentially has to be a benevolent dictator - actually listening to the fans on managerial matters would be dangerous most of the time. We'd have sacked Scot and Hurst in November 2009. Fortunately DN has built up so much credit noone can really criticise him. Ever.
I don't think there was ever much chance of us challenging for the play offs having lost the irreplaceable Pearson and Church (as well as good players such as Yates, Murphy and SWD). I do think JL shows a lot of promise as a football manager. If there's not good evidence of progress next year then it'll be time to say bye.
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We'd have sacked Scot and Hurst in November 2009. Fortunately DN has built up so much credit noone can really criticise him. Ever.
Royal 'we', I wouldn't, I don't offer the knee-jerk reaction some do.
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Give the man another chance, I'll go along with DN on this, and still be there supporting the team next season, and the next ect.
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Just to add to Adam,s comments , many of those who called H&S management into question are the same people who are questioning Lee,s position .
Look,s as though Newton may have got it right again !!
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Dick Creasy as assistant that would be cheap cheap
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Cheer up people - this is a positive move.
Two things have been abundantly clear as the season has gone on - 1) the two managers thing hasn't really been working and 2) Canners can't cut it at this level as a player any more - it's a shame but after all the injuries his legs have gone and the last 2 home games have shown this very clearly.
Jason comes across as an intellient bloke with a decent football brain. With an assistant who has a bit more experience in certain areas of management, I think he will develop into a decent manager.
Many other teams in this league have assistant managers on the bench. It's not something we've ever really done, other than the Evans era, and I think it will benefit the club with the right man in place. Let's wait and see who it is before jumping to conclusions/criticising.
As for the comments about things being done on the cheap - firstly, if you want bigger budgets put your hand in your own pocket. But also, 'cheap' doesn't necessarily mean bad. S&H came from a smaller club with little experience. Look at some of the other successful managers in this league - Steve Housham came from Brigg, Steve Kittrick from Osset; hardly big money signings. In contrast, if you get a big budget big name you could end up with a Brian Little (or a Steve McLaren at Forest)
We all need to get behind Jason and his new assistant - get down to York Street at the start of next season, let's get some money coming in through the turnstiles and see what we can do.
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I think we would all agree on the following ambitions for the club. 1 To be financially viable and be able to stand on its own two feet. 2 To achieve a ground relocation that would supplement Number 1. 3 T achieve success on the pitch which will produce its own rewards.
The question is, in which order do you personally put them in. To financially support the ambition of promotion would mean sacrificing some of the support for the other 2 which would be disasterous and endanger the survival of the club AND although we have a terrific chairman I think he is too wise to pump money into the club to achieve promotion ahead of survival and relocation.
Support the chairman, yes. Support the club, yes, but come on, do you really think we can afford the quality of player and manager required for promotion when the long term future is the main ambition.
Promotion would be great and if JL can achieve that on a minimal budget that would be even better but to gamble on success ahead of survival and relocation would be folly.
The chairman has ambitions for the club but in which order would you put them in.
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1) Financial viability
2) New Ground, as the rent for this one is strangly us
3) Team, within a usable budget
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4) A bookie adjacent to the ground . (surprised you overlooked that Barmac.)